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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#241 - 2014-05-14 02:53:10 UTC
Okay yeah predictive mouse movement is nice, you can keep that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
xRavishx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2014-05-14 02:56:30 UTC
I'm absolutely loving the predictive mouse movement. It's a small fix that makes a huge impact.

Also, great jeorb on the tooltips. The experience is good so far. Big smile
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#243 - 2014-05-14 02:58:27 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.


Two Words.
TEST. SERVER.

You know ahead of time it will require 'significant' iteration, yet you chose to just up and skip the Test Server phase.

Then jump on it from time to time and give input.
There was only two pages of feed back in the thread on the test server forums and they where about straight bug fixes and inconsistency in the builds. Some help when talking to the devs would be a great help.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#244 - 2014-05-14 02:59:04 UTC
Hopefully this isn't a sign of what to come with those mini patches in the future, things done half-assed and making the game less tolerable for those who have been playing for years for the sake of the "New Player Experience".
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2014-05-14 03:20:19 UTC
Salpun wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.


Two Words.
TEST. SERVER.

You know ahead of time it will require 'significant' iteration, yet you chose to just up and skip the Test Server phase.

Then jump on it from time to time and give input.
There was only two pages of feed back in the thread on the test server forums and they where about straight bug fixes and inconsistency in the builds. Some help when talking to the devs would be a great help.

I was literally incapable of giving testing these changes or giving feedback since they chose to limit the changes to half the accounts and neither of mine had them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#246 - 2014-05-14 03:22:11 UTC
Trabadouli wrote:
please, for the love of all that is holy, let me turn of these tooltips!


Seriously, these things are a royal PITA.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

General Nusense
Doomheim
#247 - 2014-05-14 03:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: General Nusense
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Hi,



Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.




Why do you have to think about this carefully?

I have played this game for 7+ years without these tool tips that require EXTRA clicks to do something. It should be an option, just like the ones for your modules.

VOTE OFF SWITCH IN 2014.

btw, It still amazing to this day that you dont include an OFF BUTTON with the release and we understand that it will take you 3 years to implement an off swtich that actually works.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#248 - 2014-05-14 03:31:30 UTC
I hate it, I totally hate it! hulk smash! boom! kicking puppies!


CCP how do you manage to implement something and leave out a disable option on a feature. this is terrible planning its almost on amateur level. get rid of it

the blocks are getting into the way of the HUD and oh my precious sidebar is now ruined by these newbie tips.. how come you just didn't put this on the tutorial side of the game.. epic thinking ccp.. epic
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#249 - 2014-05-14 03:31:57 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
I vote for a button to disable the tooltips.


+10, I second it, a very very gross error on CCP's part, sheer stupidity.


It was an error of judgement, certainly. Perhaps someone at CCP thought, "we'll introduce it and then polish it later," having forgotten about the frustration that the unified inventory caused when it was introduced. Please don't throw around insults when you're trying to convince people to fix things for you. It's like never complaining that the chef is stupid, please cook this steak properly ;)

As an aside, I love the unified inventory now: it is working nicely. Well, apart from "Inventory" always opening my ship's cargo hold instead of my station hangar, even when I leave it open on "Personal Hangar" when I undock. But that's a gripe for a different thread.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#250 - 2014-05-14 03:33:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Okay yeah predictive mouse movement is nice, you can keep that.


It's not just nice, it's awesome Cool

This is CCP we're talking about, after all!!

Day 0 Advice for New Players
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#251 - 2014-05-14 03:36:23 UTC
Salpun wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.


Two Words.
TEST. SERVER.

You know ahead of time it will require 'significant' iteration, yet you chose to just up and skip the Test Server phase.

Then jump on it from time to time and give input.
There was only two pages of feed back in the thread on the test server forums and they where about straight bug fixes and inconsistency in the builds. Some help when talking to the devs would be a great help.

If my SiSi build had anything other than the old style of tooltips i would certainly have said something. But alas, it did not.

Infact, it still has the old style, which is what i used to double check how much information/functionality we lost due to this new improved hotness.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#252 - 2014-05-14 03:39:36 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.


This was back at post #84 on page 5.

It would be nice if the "quote" feature could include details like "In post #84 on this thread, Jayem See wrote:" =)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#253 - 2014-05-14 03:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
While there are a lot of issues. The control interface either needs to be as comprehensive as the new sound interface is going to be or it can be as simple as a couple of sliders.

The future vision as articulate by the devs is to have three layers of tool tips. First level NPE, Tool tips as deployed yesterday plus fixes. Normal for (bitter Vets) prepatch plus fitting screen and in space improvements. Enhanced - most of these will be accessed thru the NPE tool tip layer of if that is disabled leaving your mouse over a icon for like 5 or 6 sec will pull up the Tutorial level info panel.

Ideal interface a simple slider with multiple slid-able buttons. The slide will be the time delay for the tool tips with multiple drag able buttons for the delay to the next level of tool tips. That means that the one with the shortest delay will be the Normal then NPE and then Enhanced.

The persistence of the tool tip when you slide your mouse out side window you are running EVE in needs to be worked on.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2014-05-14 03:45:04 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.


This was back at post #84 on page 5.

It would be nice if the "quote" feature could include details like "In post #84 on this thread, Jayem See wrote:" =)

It would be nice if CCP bought some good forum software instead of trying to reinvent the wheel for no reason.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#255 - 2014-05-14 03:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Ali Aras wrote:
Quick feedback note:

Hovering over other pilots on the overview should include corp/alliance info.

The new tooltip (class / info about why it's colored that way) is f'n fantastic, especially as a learning tool. But I used to hover over people to get their corp/alliance-- I have those on some overview setups, but not all; I don't think it's a great use of space when I'm not scouting. Still, I like to see who's around me, because it helps me make decisions about engagements, hence the hover.

Two other ideas: why not add corp/alliance tooltips to local, too? (would it be annoying?) Makes it a lot easier to see whether the local reds in system are in their home system, or fellow roamers cruising through.

Second, what about making some tooltips newbie-only? By which I mean, hide them (with option to re-enable?) after the player is no longer able to join Rookie Chat. For example, the "stargate" and "station" ones are ones that most veteran eve players *should* know, but might help a new player map symbols to type of space object.

Or, you (as a voice of the playerbase) could simply ask CCP to introduce an optional version of this, and by ask I mean make them understand that this isn't good. That is afterall what you have been voted in to do right, represent the playerbase?

Few things:
- Look through this thread at all the examples given, all the screenshots shown.
- See all the redundent pop ups such as telling me a battleship is a battleship, or that a stack of x is a stack of x.
- Notice the sheer amount of people seeing this is an incrediably bad idea. Miners, PvPers and Mission runners alike all saying the exact same thing.

Sure its great to teach new players. But dumbing down the UI for the rest of the community is not the way to do this.

This has actually, for some people broken the way they play the game.

There is one simple solution to this whole issue, one that would fix absolutely everything. Make it optional. And you are in a position to do something about it.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#256 - 2014-05-14 03:50:17 UTC
I also found that the tooltips while trying to identify and grab scatter cans was not done well at all. It also looks like the tooltip mechanic is tied to the radial menu delay. I changed that to zero and while it was an improvement, was certainly not better than just having all the cans shoot out with already visible labels. Oftentimes the tooltips got in the way of the cans I wanted.

So, yeah.. having the ability to turn off tool tips, returning the visible tags to scatter cans, and also having it not attached to the radial menu delay would be better.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#257 - 2014-05-14 04:00:05 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
I also found that the tooltips while trying to identify and grab scatter cans was not done well at all. It also looks like the tooltip mechanic is tied to the radial menu delay. I changed that to zero and while it was an improvement, was certainly not better than just having all the cans shoot out with already visible labels. Oftentimes the tooltips got in the way of the cans I wanted.

So, yeah.. having the ability to turn off tool tips, returning the visible tags to scatter cans, and also having it not attached to the radial menu delay would be better.


Yep, it is not good when the first scatter container you click / hover over opens a roadside billboard that blocks your view of all the other containers then takes 5 seconds to open when you finally see another container. CCP, you killed relic and data sites :(
Oraac Ensor
#258 - 2014-05-14 04:00:58 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.


This was back at post #84 on page 5.

It would be nice if the "quote" feature could include details like "In post #84 on this thread, Jayem See wrote:" =)

It would be nice if CCP bought some good forum software instead of trying to reinvent the wheel for no reason.

I was amazed when I came to these forums. In every other forum site I've ever visited quotes have a little arrow icon or something similar that jumps you back to the original post.
Taxi Nepaht
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2014-05-14 04:01:14 UTC
Hi,


I'm a new player, 3 weeks old , please let me disable the invasive tooltips.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#260 - 2014-05-14 04:08:37 UTC
Yikes.

The in space functionality looks very poor. Linking this guy's video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emBHRNzMI9E&feature=youtu.be