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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#141 - 2014-05-13 21:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
You guys ran these changes past the CSM before pushing it live right?

Right after reviewing the test server feedback?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Destiny Calling
North Eastern Swat
#142 - 2014-05-13 21:55:13 UTC
Please also allow for a button that completely disables the "scan overlay". I don't see why these pve scans are forced onto me and make me click disable every system.


please thanks.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#143 - 2014-05-13 21:57:30 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
You guys ran this change past the CSM before pushing it live right?

Right after reviewing the test server feedback?



My guess is that they mentioned it's supposed to help the NPE and Ripard Teg shouted everyone else down to give them the greenlight.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2014-05-13 21:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
As someone who is new to EVE, computers, and life in general, I had no idea the little "x" at the top left corner of every window in every operating system, program, and game with windows closed the window on which it was placed until informed of such by the new "close" tooltip associated with the aforementioned symbol.

I, for one, feel this design philosophy needs to be expanded. Perhaps by creating a tooltip associated with every window to inform players that each window is, in fact, a window. To continue on this line of thought, a tooltip could be associated with each tooltip explaining that tooltips are, in fact, tooltips. A tooltip could also be associated with the cursor so when someone mouses over their cursor they can learn their cursor is, in fact, a cursor, with helpful information on how exactly to use the cursor and mouse. As we all know the first thing anyone does after they buy their first PC or MAC is install EVE online.


To cease being daft, we all know that accessibility = profit. But unless CCP is planning on selling EVE boxes (read: prefab computers that only play EVE) a fair portion of the new tooltips are unnecessary and, frankly, frightening. As they seem to have been created, approved, and rolled out by a company that is operating under the impression that somehow, someone would manage to start playing EVE online before they ever used a computer.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
Emiko P'eng
#145 - 2014-05-13 22:01:20 UTC
Very Nice.

Now how do I turn them OFF before they get really, really annoying!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#146 - 2014-05-13 22:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
You guys ran this change past the CSM before pushing it live right?

Right after reviewing the test server feedback?



My guess is that they mentioned it's supposed to help the NPE and Ripard Teg shouted everyone else down to give them the greenlight.


It's hard to laugh because that's entirely plausible.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ivan Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2014-05-13 22:08:03 UTC
The new tooltips as of the 5/13 release are a major pain. The overview already says it is a station. I dearly miss having the name of the station when it is moused over in the overview.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2014-05-13 22:08:54 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
As someone who is new to EVE, computers, and life in general, I had no idea the little "x" at the top left corner of every window in every operating system, program, and game with windows closed the window on which it was placed until informed of such by the new "close" tooltip associated with the aforementioned symbol.

I, for one, feel this design philosophy needs to be expanded. Perhaps by creating a tooltip associated with every window to inform players that each window is, in fact, a window. To continue on this line of thought, a tooltip could be associated with each tooltip explaining that tooltips are, in fact, tooltips. A tooltip could also be associated with the cursor so when someone mouses over their cursor they can learn their cursor is, in fact, a cursor, with helpful information on how exactly to use the cursor and mouse. As we all know the first thing anyone does when they buy a new PC or MAC is install EVE online.


To cease being daft, we all know that accessibility = profit. But unless CCP is planning on selling EVE boxes (read: prefab computers that only play EVE) a fair portion of the new tooltips are unnecessary and, frankly, frightening. As they seem to have been created, approved, and rolled out by a company that is operating under the impression that somehow, someone would manage to start playing EVE online before they ever used a computer.


this :)
Blue Harrier
#149 - 2014-05-13 22:09:05 UTC
Some observations on the tool-tips during a quick look tonight.

When ‘hanging’ in space stopped and cloaked a common thing for a scanning ship, I noticed that I had to be very careful where I ‘parked’ my mouse cursor because the small but noticeable movement of the ship caused random pop up tooltips to obscure things I was looking at/for.

Missing tooltips; the station services buttons and tabs all have tooltips except if you merge the ‘ships’ and ‘items’ tabs they don’t.

No tooltips on the Drones window or on the drones themselves, this could/might be useful for range/type/damage type etc.

The overview tooltips give no useful information whatsoever, I ended up either dragging the overview window wider so I could see which station was which or click each station individually so the name appeared in the (can’t remember the name), narrow window with the icons.

And as others have said it definitely needs a ‘speed of response’ and ‘number or type’ tooltips sliders or tick boxes.

Good try but needs more work

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#150 - 2014-05-13 22:12:02 UTC
Two things:

1: Make button to turn tooltips off

2: or rollback the update and return everything to how it was.

It really is an unneccesary and even gamebreaking addition for people who play the game for years.
Liandrin Rere
2020 Unlimited
#151 - 2014-05-13 22:12:06 UTC
Did you realy need to make it harder to loot after the hacking mini game? Befor it was some what easy too see the names of the containers but now it takes a sec to get see the name and that is time you dont always have.
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#152 - 2014-05-13 22:15:49 UTC
Everyone likes new stuff, but not everyone likes losing old stuff that was 100% OK and working.
In this case, I would very much like to have a way to turn basically all of these new tips and UI changes off immediately.
You can turn tutorials off (thank god). Just package this screen clogging information overload with the tutorial stuff, or some other easy to find place such that I can tick a box and resume playing the game. I would be much happier to log in tomorrow and see the UI exactly how it was yesterday, but with the option, should I chose it, to have this, though I almost never would use it.

Forcing stuff onto otherwise happy people isn't good.
Ivan Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2014-05-13 22:23:03 UTC
A few things I have noticed today:
Neocom skill bar no longer keeps real time until skill completion, distance of a locked object and its corresponding unit in overview not synchronized, no name of station when hovered over in overview. Don't like any of this. Won't be able to see the Charlie-Foxtrot the loot spew is until another few days (refuse to run data/relic sites on this 15 inch screen laptop as it's too tiny). Playing on a laptop with the new tooltips is a major pain.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#154 - 2014-05-13 22:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
Geezus, this is ridiculous...

And I thought that you switched to shorter release cycle to avoid shipping half-assed features.
Nice job, I hope CCP Seagul will mention this frakk up in her next entry in dream journal.

Feedback from my corpie getting back from a roam:
Quote:

[22:23:35] Schmata Bastanold > how did you like new tooltips? :)
[22:23:41] Jameson2011 > terrible
[22:23:46] Jameson2011 > just too much crap
[22:23:51] Jameson2011 > telling you something you already know

Invalid signature format
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#155 - 2014-05-13 22:28:56 UTC
To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.

The thing that is annoying is that it pops up instantly where there should be a delay. The delay is meant for those who do not know what something does to get more info, while those who know it's function can instantly use it without having to read the tooltip.

Implement delay = everyone happy.

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Tek Handle
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#156 - 2014-05-13 22:30:29 UTC

I like the new Tooltips. However, iirc the old Tooltip was auto-updating its content when you hovered over the Training Queue on the Neocom. Now, that's not the case anymore. On that topic, can we please have auto-updating Tooltips for brackets (distance) in space?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2014-05-13 22:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Redundant info 1
Thanks CCP, I didn't know those were tracking speed scripts and I didn't know how many I had.

Redundant info 2
This should really say "overview options". I know what my active overview configuration is, it's already listed like 15 pixels down and to the right.

Redundant info 3
The rest of the tooltip is nice, but it doesn't need to be titled. Again, this info is already shown.

Redundant info 4
This I kind of understand given how you've redone bracket tooltips, but you should really avoid showing this if it's just one bracket being shown.

Redundant info 5
Again, you don't need the title. The rest is fine.

This is not a pilot.

There is only one Sun. This is a star.

This module doesn't even have a fitting window tooltip.
(Energized Armor Layering Membrane II)

And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess:
WTF?
Seriously, WTF?


Also:
I know what minimize and close are. Everyone who has ever used a computer in the past 20 years knows what these are. They do not need tooltips.

The tooltips in space are awful, slow, and when you stack many items together the tooltip blocks out a significant portion of the screen entirely. The previous tooltips are far superior.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ForceM
POS Builder Inc.
#158 - 2014-05-13 22:34:49 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Hi,

*snip*

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

*snip*



Yes it does indeed.
Because at this point i think i speak for alot of ppl that playing Hello Kitty Online insults us less then EVE Online kiddy style.

Let me make sure you get this correctly.
Think carefully about what we want ... not about what you want.
If you seriously want this tooltip stuff in then make it opt-in ... not mandatory.
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#159 - 2014-05-13 22:36:15 UTC
As a relatively new player, may I also request for a way to turn these off and/or remove them.

The delay in animations and location of them is making the already irritating loot spew mechanic of relic and data sites significantly worse, owing to the delay in identifying which can is which, and the tooltip obscures other cans from being selected.

Yes, I've read that the loot spew mechanic is being removed some time in the future, however making the current system even more irritating and unusable in the meantime isn't the answer.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#160 - 2014-05-13 22:37:31 UTC
Jessica Danikov wrote:
There seems to be a number of websites and articles that explore this clever trick- the common popular cited reference implementation does seem to be Amazon, also reflected in the proposal of the feature in Reasonable Things as the 'Amazon menu hack'. It seems mildly dishonest to leave out this information and pass it off as your own- if this were a research paper, that would be plagiarism. That said, it's not too late to correct such an omission either.


I first encountered the "predictive" menu thing as "menu hysteresis" on Apple Macintosh System 6 (way back in 1990), it's not an Amazon invention. And it's not even predictive, it's hysteresis, which means it's taking time to react to the mouse leaving the menu, rather than opening up menus in advance of the mouse arriving :)

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