EVE General Discussion

I like where this guy is going.

Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.

I am afraid you fail to see my point in that question.

If a battle is worth having doesnt it require a loss of assets of good value? you cant have assets of good value if you loose them every other day. In the mean average that is.

So simply put you cant have high stakes battles often because then the stakes would lower or everyone would run out of assets.

good that tey are commited probers / cloackers / suicede fleets , can you imagen you hadnt those , so no effort req.

wich brings my point , eve isnt popular cause its need effort , wich makes it real popular for the guys who are playing it

The question in the OP is wrong. The question isn't "why isn't EVE more popular". That question has been answered by every poster who has detailed all of the themepark features and mechanics that EVE Online lacks.

The real question is this: If you Need those kinds of things to enjoy a game and just have to have it in a future/space setting, why are you here (in EVE Online, a game that doesn't have those things) instead of HERE (a game that does have all those things you say you want)?

Yep - and like I said before, if it ever actually became a legitimate challenge, PvE players would absolutely revolt. Right now it's a low-approaching-zero risk, mid-high reward activity. Do you really think the people who enjoy that would react kindly to a risk upgrade? Even with an accompanying reward upgrade (which would be HIGHLY unlikely), there's no way the ratio would be even in the same zipcode of what it is now.

They will gladly whine about PvE not being "interesting" enough all day, but see how they feel when their officer-fit marauder gets interestingly destroyed in a mission.

Nor can that realistically happen. Assuming even remotely matched PvP fleets with even vaguely competent FCs, at least a few losses on each side are virtually guaranteed by way of alpha pops.

Guaranteed losses will never, ever fly in PvE.

Hell, they threw a 50 page tantrum about losing ships in a live event a few months back.

This is an erroneous generalization. While it can sometimes be useful to categorize players into PvPers and PvEers it must surely be pretty obvious to everyone here that those categories encompass players with a multitude of different attitudes. It must also be equally obvious that the majority of Eve players both PvE _and_ PvP to varying degrees, which alone makes the generalization nonsensical.

The mechanism of total loss affects both PvP and PvE similarly, so I think that most of us that have played Eve long term probably do so in part because we enjoy the thrill of the risk we take, whether that's in PvP _or_ PvE.

Some will say, and have said here, that there is no risk in PvE at all. That's misguided. If you have an experienced crew of the optimal number of pilots in the optimal ships then it's true that you have minimised the risks, but accidents still happen. But if you are trying to run Incursions for the first time, with a skeleton crew or players in suboptimal ships, or attempting to solo wspace content, then you sometimes have as much chance of getting spanked by NPCs as you have of getting ganked by players (or you should!). Exploration deep in hostile space is still PvE, but risky nonetheless. As much as it is possible it is risks like that which I would like to see apply to _all_ PvE.

Either way, the notion that all PvPers are chill with the idea of losing ships while anyone who PvEs can't take it seems as arrogant as it is asinine.

No, I don't believe that those identifying features from lesser risk MMOs that Eve lacks are even remotely on the right track of why Eve is not more popular.

I think instead that Eve has a certain group of players, who see themselves as hardcore PvPers, who will choose to interpret any proposed change or improvement to the PvE side of the game as a desire to make PvE easier, hence the use of derogatory terms like 'themepark features and mechanics', remarks like SurrenderMonkey's above, and links to Hello Kitty Online or whatever. I get the impression that this is primarily an attempt to belittle anyone who PvEs, although what purpose they think this might serve I wouldn't care to guess.

However, if you read the thread carefully you notice that in the OP what I actually suggested was that making PvE _much_ _harder_ and ideally closer in mechanics to PvP itself, would make it more engaging, and consequently Eve more popular. No mention of making it any easier at all.

And while there have been several posters that have chosen to interpret "getting killed when they weren't expecting it" as "griefing", there are always some of those, but in the main I haven't seen anyone suggesting that Eve in general, or PvE in particular, needs to be made easier, so I don't really see why the 'cool PvP' crowd need to be going on about that quite so much when that's neither the topic nor what anyone is suggesting.

Take it up with the army of 'bears that lose their **** when they unexpectedly lose a ship. Problematically for your position, that this is a problem for them is an actual fact, regardless of how asinine you personally feel that may be.

I'll ignore the part where, like any intellectually dishonest forum troll, you went full strawman by converting "PvE-ers" (i.e., "People who identify as PvE players") into, "anyone who ever does any PvE at all", btw. I mean, I'll ignore it except for observing that you did that.

I'm nice like that.

It should be pretty obvious that, "People who do some PvE to support their PvP habit" are an entirely different class of player.

Yes, in the cheapest piece of junk frigate that can fit the cyno and can hold the fuel.
In essence, something a new player can easily do, but in general doesn't know is one of the myriad options of things to do in EvE.
That's why I (and fortunately others as well) sometimes take the time and hang around in a new player systems talking to, well, new players. Pointing them at the near endless possibilities this game has. Of course a lot are newly started alts, but quite often there are new people that are open to the sandbox.

Is it boring to do as opposed to the things I normally do in game? Oh yes, definitely. Is it rewarding? Again, oh yes. (And no, not in Isk or km's or new corp slaves to smack about!!!)
I can recommend every seasoned EvE player to do so once in a wile. Just help the newbro's on their way. Not to make an interesting evening, far from it actually, but an interesting EvE future for years to come.

Forgive for my personal opinion on the matter, now on to more technical forum business:

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Thread reopened.