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Crime & Punishment

 
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Noir. [Est. 2008]

First post First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#361 - 2014-05-13 14:43:32 UTC
Oshia Launay wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Bull. Even though they might say it now, theres no mercs that would take a bounty contract, then just not shoot any other targets at the same time,
Mischaracterization much ?
Uhh, nope, that's about it. He's all teary eyed because they shot people that were also shooting goons, while they themselves shot goons. As far as he is concerned, them shooting goons automatically meant they were supposed to not shoot anyone else that shot them, yet he never asked for that.

Oshia Launay wrote:
Gevlon Goblin is not my "pal", we've never interacted in any way, and I couldn't care less about goons. I have this insatiable urge to stand up against double talk, hypocrisy and more generally dishonesty. My motivation for posting on the forums is not relevant however. Like the mischaracterization above, attacking my motivation is just a dishonest diversion.
You say that, yet you seems to be leaping into his defense quite quickly, seemingly with a small enough amount of knowledge of the situation that you seem to have taken what he wrote on his blog as pure fact.

At the end of the day it is simple. He hired Noir to shoot goons for bounties. They shot goons. He should therefore pay (which he himself has admitted) yet he won't. He didn't ask them not to shoot anyone else, so anything else they did at the same time is irrelevant.

Joseph Soprano wrote:
PS. You forgot to mention the 20billion bounty on your titanic
I'm sure they are shaking with fear. That's just another sign of Gevlon's peasantry. 20B for people to find and kill a titan that may or may not exist and if it does will be protected by a POS and a formidable mercenary corp? That's just not going to happen. Nobody is going to go through that much effort for chump change.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

jack1974
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2014-05-13 14:50:55 UTC
If you need God's Work done, hire PL.
Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2014-05-13 15:17:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm sure they are shaking with fear. That's just another sign of Gevlon's peasantry. 20B for people to find and kill a titan that may or may not exist and if it does will be protected by a POS and a formidable mercenary corp? That's just not going to happen. Nobody is going to go through that much effort for chump change.


I don't really care whether they are shaking with fear or not. The 20 billion isk bounty was a reply to the false scam allegations which Noir was/is trying to spread about Gevlon. You already should know that Lucas.
Oshia Launay
Galactic Fringe Inc
#364 - 2014-05-13 15:59:30 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You say that, yet you seems to be leaping into his defense quite quickly, seemingly with a small enough amount of knowledge of the situation that you seem to have taken what he wrote on his blog as pure fact.

Or maybe I can think for myself and see the forum apologist horse dung for what it is.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#365 - 2014-05-13 18:11:10 UTC
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm sure they are shaking with fear. That's just another sign of Gevlon's peasantry. 20B for people to find and kill a titan that may or may not exist and if it does will be protected by a POS and a formidable mercenary corp? That's just not going to happen. Nobody is going to go through that much effort for chump change.


I don't really care whether they are shaking with fear or not. The 20 billion isk bounty was a reply to the false scam allegations which Noir was/is trying to spread about Gevlon. You already should know that Lucas.
Lol, what false allegations? Noir said he didn't pay, Gevlon has admitted this. Gevlon has even admitted that they did work he should have paid for but didn't.

Oshia Launay wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You say that, yet you seems to be leaping into his defense quite quickly, seemingly with a small enough amount of knowledge of the situation that you seem to have taken what he wrote on his blog as pure fact.

Or maybe I can think for myself and see the forum apologist horse dung for what it is.
Arguable. So far I've only see you spew the same sperg he has, which is basically that his bounty contract should have somehow meant that Noir were betrothed to him. It's not like they didn't kill goons, they just killed other people too.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Oshia Launay
Galactic Fringe Inc
#366 - 2014-05-13 19:16:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Oshia Launay wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You say that, yet you seems to be leaping into his defense quite quickly, seemingly with a small enough amount of knowledge of the situation that you seem to have taken what he wrote on his blog as pure fact.

Or maybe I can think for myself and see the forum apologist horse dung for what it is.
Arguable. So far I've only see you spew the same sperg he has, which is basically that his bounty contract should have somehow meant that Noir were betrothed to him. It's not like they didn't kill goons, they just killed other people too.

Then you fail to read, as you are the one repeatedly talking of a 'bounty contract' (*) and my posts were quite clearly about the conflict of interest in taking simultaneous jobs for clients with competing goals, pretty much regardless of the specifics.

Play pretend-space-lawyer and spout all the rhetorics you like, if I was in Gevlon shoes and found out the mercs I hired were working against me, they would never see the color of my money either. Simple as that. I wouldn't be as pleasant as Gevlon though. After all the "wasn't in the contract" nonsense, I'd have a field day arguing that neither was paying before hell freezes over.

(*) on the idea that anything the client discussed and requested in chat, I mean: "The Contract" became null and void because it suits Noir/you/whoever.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#367 - 2014-05-13 19:23:37 UTC
Can we stop talking about this now?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2014-05-13 19:38:51 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Can we stop talking about this now?


Of course WE can your participation is not mandatory.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#369 - 2014-05-13 19:55:24 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
At the end of the day it is simple. He hired Noir to shoot goons for bounties. They shot goons. He should therefore pay (which he himself has admitted) yet he won't. He didn't ask them not to shoot anyone else, so anything else they did at the same time is irrelevant.

Joseph Soprano wrote:
PS. You forgot to mention the 20billion bounty on your titanic
I'm sure they are shaking with fear.

Re-quoting for Joe's benefit since he doesn't know what a scam is (or is Gob's alt in the Lemming holding corp and is doing that famed Goblin cognitive dissonance thing)

Also we're not so much shaking in fear as convulsing with laughter. In the same post as Goblin admits he owes someone 2b in ISK for something they destroyed he offers a 20b bounty for something else.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#370 - 2014-05-13 20:05:09 UTC
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Can we stop talking about this now?


Of course WE can your participation is not mandatory.


Im sorry... who are you?

The horse is dead, people have heard the facts form both sides. Anyone who cares has the facts. This pointless debate has spilled into three different threads now. Hire them or dont, but lets stop shitting up the forums.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#371 - 2014-05-13 20:12:26 UTC
Oshia Launay wrote:
Then you fail to read, as you are the one repeatedly talking of a 'bounty contract' (*) and my posts were quite clearly about the conflict of interest in taking simultaneous jobs for clients with competing goals, pretty much regardless of the specifics.
The goals did not conflict. The both involved killing people in Jita, and neither involved not killing anyone. They only conflict if you think that killing the goons for a bounty means you can't kill other people who are also killing goons, which it doesn't.

Oshia Launay wrote:
Play pretend-space-lawyer and spout all the rhetorics you like, if I was in Gevlon shoes and found out the mercs I hired were working against me, they would never see the color of my money either. Simple as that. I wouldn't be as pleasant as Gevlon though. After all the "wasn't in the contract" nonsense, I'd have a field day arguing that neither was paying before hell freezes over.
I don't need to play space lawyer since this is simple stuff, there's no lawyering needed. His contract did not state that he can't kill Marmite/Lemmings, and that's that. Gevlon is complaining about Noir breaching a clause that didn't exist.

And they probably don't care that they wouldn't see your money, since people dumb enough to not understand what a bounty contract is and dumb enough to harp on about Gevlon's sperg repeatedly while showing absolutely no signs of having taken the facts on board are probably not the type of people that would be in a position to be a relevant client.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2014-05-13 20:20:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol, what false allegations? Noir said he didn't pay, Gevlon has admitted this. Gevlon has even admitted that they did work he should have paid for but didn't.


Even bigger Lol. Gevlon doesn't pay scammers and he didn't pay Noir.

'what false allegations'
The ones Noir was spreading after Gevlon sent the mail on Friday. Why do you think Noir continued on with the supposed contract even after openly saying Gevlon had scammed them?


Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#373 - 2014-05-13 21:18:29 UTC
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol, what false allegations? Noir said he didn't pay, Gevlon has admitted this. Gevlon has even admitted that they did work he should have paid for but didn't.
Even bigger Lol. Gevlon doesn't pay scammers and he didn't pay Noir.

'what false allegations'
The ones Noir was spreading after Gevlon sent the mail on Friday. Why do you think Noir continued on with the supposed contract even after openly saying Gevlon had scammed them?
They continued killing everyone in Jita because it was fun. If anyone scammed anyone here, Gevlon scammed Noir, since he got them to do a contract, then outright refused to pay. I know that's hard for you to accept since he's your leader and you have to suck up to him and all that, but that's just the way it goes buddy. Noir made no false allegations, they made very factual statements about Gevlon's refusal to pay.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Isabela Valentine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#374 - 2014-05-13 21:19:34 UTC
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol, what false allegations? Noir said he didn't pay, Gevlon has admitted this. Gevlon has even admitted that they did work he should have paid for but didn't.


Even bigger Lol. Gevlon doesn't pay scammers and he didn't pay Noir.

'what false allegations'
The ones Noir was spreading after Gevlon sent the mail on Friday. Why do you think Noir continued on with the supposed contract even after openly saying Gevlon had scammed them?




For those of you that think we made a mistake by shooting Lemmings while shooting goons, that argument would be the same thing as saying that if we were contracted by Solar to shoot NC. during the halloween war and shot AAA at the same time. Do you think they would be crying about it? Not likely.

Gevlon, instead of putting a 20B bounty on our Titan, which you know full well will never be claimed, you could just pay for us to be war decced for a while. Just sayin...

NMG. would have been in Jita shooting CFC whether Gevlon had contracted us or not. Your points are merely dragging this on. If you wish to continue this feel free to do it somewhere else. There has been over 10 pages added to this thread alone about this topic. Gevlon has his side of the story and so do we. If you don't feel confident in hiring us then don't. We won't be shedding any tears over your lost business as we have many other repeat clients from over the years that know how we get the job done.
Oshia Launay
Galactic Fringe Inc
#375 - 2014-05-13 22:06:52 UTC
Quote:
The goals did not conflict. The both involved killing people in Jita, and neither involved not killing anyone. They only conflict if you think that killing the goons for a bounty means you can't kill other people who are also killing goons, which it doesn't.


Lucas Kell wrote:
And they probably don't care that they wouldn't see your money, since people dumb enough to not understand what a bounty contract is and dumb enough to harp on about Gevlon's sperg repeatedly while showing absolutely no signs of having taken the facts on board are probably not the type of people that would be in a position to be a relevant client.

"Things I keep repeating until people are bored to tears" do not constitute "facts", Lucas. Not even if you wrap them up in denial, condescension, and thinly veiled insults that every average forum-joe resorts to to advance his opinions as 'facts'.
Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2014-05-13 22:30:47 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol, what false allegations? Noir said he didn't pay, Gevlon has admitted this. Gevlon has even admitted that they did work he should have paid for but didn't.
Even bigger Lol. Gevlon doesn't pay scammers and he didn't pay Noir.

'what false allegations'
The ones Noir was spreading after Gevlon sent the mail on Friday. Why do you think Noir continued on with the supposed contract even after openly saying Gevlon had scammed them?
They continued killing everyone in Jita because it was fun. If anyone scammed anyone here, Gevlon scammed Noir, since he got them to do a contract, then outright refused to pay. I know that's hard for you to accept since he's your leader and you have to suck up to him and all that, but that's just the way it goes buddy. Noir made no false allegations, they made very factual statements about Gevlon's refusal to pay.


Can you and Noir get your stories straight please Alek says Gevlons nothing to do with Darwin's lemming and now he's my heroic leader. Once you and Alek get your stories straight please tell me because I really need to know. Oh wait I might be 'Gob's alt in the Lemming holding corp' according to Alek , who knows or cares?

Well I would really expect you to say Gevlon wasn't scammed you being a trustworthy goon and all that however just plain ignoring the discussions about using eaf and ecm just makes you look a bit dumb. Saying Gevlon scammed them to save a pittance makes you look even dumber.

' they made very factual statements about Gevlon's refusal to pay' - he refused to pay because Noir had misrepresented what they would be doing in the contract and failed to mention that they would be allying with the goons who were the target of his contract. He was also much surprised that Noir had been hired by an element of the cfc without his permission. Gevlon had valid reasons for not paying and the scam excuse presented by Noir is laughable.

Yes I'm afraid despite what Noir's goon friend says Gevlon was set up and scammed by Noir.


Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#377 - 2014-05-13 22:33:26 UTC
Oshia Launay wrote:
Quote:
The goals did not conflict. The both involved killing people in Jita, and neither involved not killing anyone. They only conflict if you think that killing the goons for a bounty means you can't kill other people who are also killing goons, which it doesn't.


Lucas Kell wrote:
And they probably don't care that they wouldn't see your money, since people dumb enough to not understand what a bounty contract is and dumb enough to harp on about Gevlon's sperg repeatedly while showing absolutely no signs of having taken the facts on board are probably not the type of people that would be in a position to be a relevant client.

"Things I keep repeating until people are bored to tears" do not constitute "facts", Lucas. Not even if you wrap them up in denial, condescension, and thinly veiled insults that every average forum-joe resorts to to advance his opinions as 'facts'.
No, the facts are the facts. Like the fact the contract was bounty only, and the fact that no blue status was set and the fact that no other clause was made, and the fact that Noir killed thousands of goons, and the fact that Gevlon admitted to having amounts he should have paid and the fact that he did not pay.

But by all means, continue telling us that those facts, which both parties have agreed were the facts, are false.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#378 - 2014-05-13 22:43:36 UTC
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Can you and Noir get your stories straight please Alek says Gevlons nothing to do with Darwin's lemming and now he's my heroic leader. Once you and Alek get your stories straight please tell me because I really need to know. Oh wait I might be 'Gob's alt in the Lemming holding corp' according to Alek , who knows or cares?
Well Gevlon publicly stated that he was nothign to do with lemmings, which is what Aleks is referring to. So then it seems strange that Gevlon would refer to you lot as "my forces", which certainly makes him sound like your leader. Add onto that the fact that whatever Gevlon tells you to do, you do without question. Lets face the truth, Gevlon didn't hire Marmite, he bought it. He is your coalition leader.

Joseph Soprano wrote:
Well I would really expect you to say Gevlon wasn't scammed you being a trustworthy goon and all that however just plain ignoring the discussions about using eaf and ecm just makes you look a bit dumb. Saying Gevlon scammed them to save a pittance makes you look even dumber.
Yes, EAF and ECM were mentioned, but would you like to read the mails that followed? Go ahead, read them. You'll see aleks saying "How about 5m/kill, 10m for pods? GSF only or all participating CFC forces?" to which Gevlon responds "Hi, 5M/kill is great, but not for destroyers. How about 2M for Catalyst, 5M for Brutix, 10M for Talos.". This is clearly an agreement for bounties on kills. Try taking your tongue out of Gevlon's crack long enough to actually review the facts before getting all excited.

Joseph Soprano wrote:
' they made very factual statements about Gevlon's refusal to pay' - he refused to pay because Noir had misrepresented what they would be doing in the contract and failed to mention that they would be allying with the goons who were the target of his contract. He was also much surprised that Noir had been hired by an element of the cfc without his permission. Gevlon had valid reasons for not paying and the scam excuse presented by Noir is laughable.
Please provide evidence of where they misrepresented what they were doing (which you won't because you can't since it's bull). They were paid bounties for kills and jams. Nothing more. Just because Gevlon gets loyalty to his cause from his pets doesn't mean that when he hires a merc corp specificity for bounties that they will automatically work to his full agenda. It means exactly what was agreed. They will kill things for money.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2014-05-13 22:46:41 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
both parties have agreed were the facts, are false.


By both parties I assume you mean Noir and yourself!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#380 - 2014-05-13 22:59:00 UTC
Joseph Soprano wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
both parties have agreed were the facts
By both parties I assume you mean Noir and yourself!
Uh no, I mean Noir and Gevlon. Go read his blog, including his comments. He's agreed that what was stated is true, and that his contract was at fault, and that he owed amounts to Noir for the work they did. His whole issue comes down to him not understanding what a bounty contract is, then being mad about it. He even posted the "tear gathering" mail that Noir sent, which was not even remotely close to such a thing. As usual, he's blasted out some pretty terrible propaganda which he legitimately seems to believe, then contradicted himself at every turn.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.