Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Big w-space alliances can't bait, because they are to well known.
Carefully escalating a fight? Lol, try that with 30 bloodhungry pilots waiting for a kill in more then months.... .
It is bascily riskfree bearing in c6/c5 space now... .

Jesus, I love non-consensual PvP as much as the next raging griefer, but god damn the amount of whining in this thread because peoples easy mode tools won't pull info that they should never have had access to anymore is unreal. So it's hard to find pvp in a wormhole you say - isn't that the point? It's hard to find **** in wormholes. Go do something useful like propose game changing ideas that you would like to see implemented for your wormholes, be useful, the incessant crys of "BUT THIS MAKES WORMHOLES HARD" are useless as arguments. Be productive and propose changes.

Cry me a river. This whole discussion started under the premise that, and I quote, "you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing [the removal]."

Yet the only two arguments against it were "it will increase inflation", which in itself would be a good reason if it had been substantiated with figures that had any basis in fact instead of being those that John Caldr pulled out of his ass; and "it will make it harder for us to gank carebears", which isn't really that convincing since you could ******* scout your chains instead of waiting for some automated tool to send you a text to your phone.

nobody is wondering about the low CSM voting turnout, considering that last year CCP sent a global evemail about the elections and this time didn't it's reasonable to expect turnout to be lower

Nullbears win again. Goons own the game, so I guess its not a sandbox afterall... Maybe a goonbox???

Break-a-Wish isn't known in W-space. It's hard to explain many of the nuances of living in Wormhole space if you haven't done it and actually tried to thrive while doing it; the words have more meaning if you've lived them. There have been some cries about this change destroying PvP, but those really are overblown. CCP had already done a good job of nerfing non-consensual PvP in W-space.

Wormhole space is about stealth, stalking, hunting, and being hunted. It's about taking what you can while either trying to stay away from the wolves, or it's about taking what you can while being a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's about waking up each day with a completely new destination, a completely new starmap to look at and explore, and different (sometimes new) people to interact with.

You can't just brazenly waltz into a system with a brick tank, engage and light a cyno, and have 1000 of your closest friends jump in from across the EVE universe to help you kill that Drake in an anomaly. What you have is what you brought with you. You can't just dock up when you are out numbered: if you are caught outside of safety, you will die. If you poke your nose out of your POS forcefield, the skilled player can bump you just right to knock you completely out and you will die. There are no docking games, station games here. (Yet). Absolutely anything in your wormhole can be destroyed; no invulnerable stations to hide your stuff in. (Again, yet).

You have no free intel data in the form of Local. Dscan is the life blood of W-space. Those who are good at using dscan do well, if you don't use it, or are poor at using it, you will die.

The largest aspect of W-space is that if you can put forth diligent effort, you can be safe. If you can put forth diligent effort, you can catch targets. Through working and preparing, you can be the victor, whether you are hunting or you are the hunted. This is what we prized the most in W-space.

At real issue is the increasing safety that CCP is affording those who wish to avoid non-consensual PvP. Through multiple changes, CCP has completely flipped the balance on hunter vs hunted in a way that seems opposite to their actions in other regions of space. The conspiracy theory is that CCP players, or their Nullbear pets, encountered an environment that was too dangerous to bear in the near-absolute safety found in the blue Null doughnut. The real reason is probably that CCP has no clue about W-space. The largest of these imbalances centers around instant sig intel data.

Previously, you wouldn't know what non-celestials were in your system until you dropped probes and actively sought out this information. The act of dropping probes would make you visible, and often vulnerable if you weren't smart about making an intermediate safe spot. Anyone scouting the system would see your probes and know there was activity.

If a new wormhole opened up into your system, you wouldn't know this until you scanned and saw the list of signatures change. This means that hunters had a window of opportunity to pounce on their prey. The size of the window depended strictly on the diligence of the prey: if you had an active scanner continually refreshing the scanner, you would know within a few seconds and could warn your fleet. It was easy enough to be safe, but it required diligence and preparation.

If CCP had changed nothing else, but removed the kill API data, it would have been acceptable. To the majority of the hunters, this information was mildly useful at best. Unless your targets were careful, you would catch them with or without this information. And if they were careful, they deserved to get away.

But CCP gave the hunted a free tool: you know instantly when someone new opens a connection in your system. As soon as the person in the connecting system initiates warp, the sig spawns in the other system and appears in the scanner window, before the hunter even exits warp in the connecting system. Bears in PvE sites can immediately see the sig and warp out. They even have time to shoot anything that scrams. Even if you, the hunter, are diligent and as efficient as you can possibly be, and have all the luck in the game on your side, your target has to be braindead to fall prey to you.

Sigs should not show up in W-space unless scanned with probes.

The only remaining risk of non-consensual PvP was the logoff trap, which often used the kill API data. Because of other changes, the presence of this free intel balanced and offset the availability of the free sig intel.

The removal of the kill API data means the dynamic in wormholes for PvE fleets will drastically change. You already did not need a dedicated scout, especially if you close all existing holes and do not warp to the new static (meaning the other side doesn't spawn). Now you no longer will need to constantly twitch-mash dscan to watch for hostiles, since groups will be less likely to seed into a non-home system without knowing it is active.

You can't just roll into any system you want whenever you want. If you put a scout in a system, it may be difficult to get back into that system, especially if you want to seed capitals.

It's like Joe Mission Runner who is in the third room of his mission being told that John the Ganker has just initiated warp to his mission's gate. There isn't a blessed thing John the Ganker can do to avoid alerting Joe Mission Runner that he is on the way.

Remember, there is no Local in W-space unless you speak up. No one is supposed to know you're there.

In reality, this data indeed shouldn't be available as it was. But it enabled the last major unknown threat to PvE activity in W-space, so in that alone it was balanced.

(Sorry for the length)

Even if this was my spaceships character, I've seen more noob corp pilots in W-space than I've seen Goons in W-space, and they give just about as much of a fight. So, yeah. SAK in particular is not a stranger to W-space.

\o/ SAK, from a current w-space resident

This is a good thing. It means we just get left to get on with stuff without having to worry about politics. I assume the whole reason you're in w-space is because you like to think for yourself and don't need your hand held like the rest of eve. The universe changed. So what? You can handle it.



In fairness, he's never going to be able to represent us all. Most of us don't need representation. We slip through the cracks. No tears, no rules. Remember?

That's odd, there's been a large thread over on the WH forum about how Goonswarm had put up a fight. Maybe you should look more closely? (I'll also accept you posting on your main instead.)