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fictional physical differences between warp and stargates

Author
Zorrkinae vonHui
Gnostics of the Sense of Life
#1 - 2014-05-11 19:55:13 UTC
Hello there....
maybe there is alleady a lot of stuff about this out there in the vast space of the forum, so if, then just link me there, but I as a totaly newb in this Forum am a little struggling with controled navigation here^^

my question is as the subject tells allready Blink
whats differing physics at warp from the physics wich a stargate uses?
I mean sure i know each scientist would laugh at me when I ask anything with faster than light traveling so there is no right answer....
but does a stargate also just passively accelarte my ship like acceleration gates do? but my shipcomputers don´t tell me that warp is beeing activated?
does the stargate "win-rar-package" my ship and warp this pack to the other gate?
or are they more familiar with wormholes, like opening a warp/wormhole-tunnel from one gate to the other?

(yeah a little other thing... when jumping through a stargate it is transporting my ship directly from one "event horizon" to the "event horizon" of the destination stargate? if yes why is my ship always posistioned in an totaly wrong angle?)


and yeah I cant wait for the new warp animation! finaly it makes some visual sense when something appears/disappears faster than light does, that there are gonna be some sparkling lightning-effects =) ... but wich still don´t explain my question xD

"there are million ways to death, but only one way leads to life"

Sarah Flinnley
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-05-12 04:22:18 UTC
Warp is standard propulsion at greater then light speeds. The star gates 'fold' space making huge distance be able to travel instantaneously. FTL speeds are great for inter system travel. But how many light years is it between the Sol system and our nearest neighbor? Years.

Hope this makes since. It's late here. I'm tired, and don't want to dig out my copy of Eve Source at the moment. If no one clears things up more for you I'll take a peek into the stargate section of the Source and respond coherently tomorrow.
Zorrkinae vonHui
Gnostics of the Sense of Life
#3 - 2014-05-12 05:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorrkinae vonHui
Sarah Flinnley wrote:
Warp is standard propulsion at greater then light speeds. The star gates 'fold' space making huge distance be able to travel instantaneously. FTL speeds are great for inter system travel. But how many light years is it between the Sol system and our nearest neighbor? Years.

Hope this makes since. It's late here. I'm tired, and don't want to dig out my copy of Eve Source at the moment. If no one clears things up more for you I'll take a peek into the stargate section of the Source and respond coherently tomorrow.


oh yeah your answer is perfect for me, cause I´m just waiting for my EVE Source arriving somewhen within the next days =)
Lol

(and anyhow this seems to fit my "rar-package" fantasy pretty well Cool then there is just the question left if there is a other reason that we dont appear in the center of the lighning wich happens when we pass the exit-stargate, as that we would all appear in the same spot wich of course would be a little ****** Roll, I look for another explaination for this than "handwaverius"^^)

"there are million ways to death, but only one way leads to life"

Sarah Flinnley
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-05-12 17:07:07 UTC
Game mechanics. Some things have to simply be modified for simplicity and usability of the game. Otherwise, you would have to position your ship inside of the gate in order to use it. You would appear inside of the gate on exit. As would everyone else who used it before and after you. Ships would occupy the same space. Problems would ensue.

At the end of the day Eve is a game. And not every aspect of it can or should be expected to be explained away in fiction. For everything else Pirate
Zorrkinae vonHui
Gnostics of the Sense of Life
#5 - 2014-05-12 19:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorrkinae vonHui
oh ****.... the post-man was here today... but I was playing EVE to long so I didnt wake up when he was at the door and ringing the bell -.-
so I´ll have to pick it up tomorrow myself at the poststation..... EVE Source I come for you!!!! Big smile

uhm yeah back to topic:
ofcouse there are things wich just have to be that way to keep the gameplay in "flow" but I can try to explain anything into a place how I can "believe" it Blink

"there are million ways to death, but only one way leads to life"

Sarah Flinnley
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-05-12 21:23:22 UTC
Zorrkinae vonHui wrote:
oh ****.... the post-man was here today... but I was playing EVE to long so I didnt wake up when he was at the door and ringing the bell -.-
so I´ll have to pick it up tomorrow myself at the poststation..... EVE Source I come for you!!!! Big smile

uhm yeah back to topic:
ofcouse there are things wich just have to be that way to keep the gameplay in "flow" but I can try to explain anything into a place how I can "believe" it Blink


Then it's simple. The offset from which you show up after jumping through a stargate is a trajectory miscalibration. Lol Cheers.
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#7 - 2014-05-13 02:14:32 UTC
I believe when you enter a warp inside a solar system the space around your ship is actually literally warped and slapped like a butt and you are actually travelling from A-to-B inside a curved spacetime or something. However the EVE/AURA client actually represents that by creating a notion you are moving forwards like when you are driving a car. Reasoning for this would be the same as why sound exists in the client while you are in space; it ads flavor and immersion for the pilot.

And when you jump through the stargate thingy, it creates a wormhole, you are suckled in and then you are pooped out on the other side and the mechanism of the second gate "cloaks you" and poops you randomly in some direction by a microjump Big smile Also, the most amazing fact about this is when you are inside the tunnel, every 0.1 second represents actually like 100 000 AU or some really crazy distance. So you better don't leave your ship! Big smile

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.

Gabriel Dube
Outer Planets Alliance
#8 - 2014-05-14 08:33:35 UTC
Zorrkinae vonHui wrote:
Hello there....
maybe there is alleady a lot of stuff about this out there in the vast space of the forum, so if, then just link me there, but I as a totaly newb in this Forum am a little struggling with controled navigation here^^

my question is as the subject tells allready Blink
whats differing physics at warp from the physics wich a stargate uses?
I mean sure i know each scientist would laugh at me when I ask anything with faster than light traveling so there is no right answer....
but does a stargate also just passively accelarte my ship like acceleration gates do? but my shipcomputers don´t tell me that warp is beeing activated?
does the stargate "win-rar-package" my ship and warp this pack to the other gate?
or are they more familiar with wormholes, like opening a warp/wormhole-tunnel from one gate to the other?

(yeah a little other thing... when jumping through a stargate it is transporting my ship directly from one "event horizon" to the "event horizon" of the destination stargate? if yes why is my ship always posistioned in an totaly wrong angle?)


and yeah I cant wait for the new warp animation! finaly it makes some visual sense when something appears/disappears faster than light does, that there are gonna be some sparkling lightning-effects =) ... but wich still don´t explain my question xD


Warp clearly isn't conventional propulsion, as warp disruption effects do not affect your standard (reaction drive) propulsion. At least, we don't need to reach anywhere close to 100% light speed for in-system warp. That alone makes things MUCH easier for theorycrafting.

Warp drives apparently operate in the same way an alcubierre drive would, by curving the space in "front" of you and "behind" you (the "warp bubble" effect) and litterally moving space around your whip rather than the ship itself, thus circumventing the implications of reactionless drives and those pesky newtonian laws. It would also easily explain how MWDs work and why they light up your sig like a christmas tree.

This would also explain why you can't warp to something that is right next to you: you would kill yourself (see below).

Which brings us to jump gates. Those seem to operate on an entirely different principle which, for a reason that few people actually think about, would make a lot of sense:

You need to keep in mind that curving and compressing space implies compressing the energy within said space, which is subsequently released upon decompression... This is what's called an explosion.

In fact, any type of FTL device would effectively be a much more devastating weapon than any laser, railgun or missile could ever be. [or, alternatively, the same principle could be used to handwave explain smartbombs: two or more layers of curved space, one that is decompressed outwards to do omnidirectional damage, and another whose purpose is to protect the ship and simultaneously redirect its own energy into the fold of the first one as a control mechanism.]

It's already good enough that we have warp drives that don't accidentally every planet we warp to, because interstellar warp drives could potentially blap whole entire systems and whatnot.

Aside from that, the interaction between ships and stargates fit more with the "win-rar-package" type of "FTL". As in: there is a breach of continuity between your pre-jump state and your post-jump state. For example, if you try reloading your weapons while jumping, you'll get a message saying that the action could not be completed as your ship is not in the same location it used to be.

It would make sense if the stargate worked much like flash-cloning does, by taking an instant image of your ship. By deconstructing your ship and then reconstructing it in the other system, you eliminate the main problem of FTL travel: anything with mass requires an infinite amount of energy to reach light speed.

The solution: don't send anything with mass. Send a signal via a controllable micro-wormhole or some other form of FTL communication (which, by itself is still very problematic, but much less so than accelerating mass faster than light), which would only need to be a map of where all the atoms composing your ship need to be to reproduce it at a given time. Yes, such stargates would decompose your ship and 3D-print it in another system with entirely different atoms. So it technically wouldn't be the same ship.

Yeah. You wouldn't just jump to another location. You would jump to another material composition.

Another point to support this possibility is the central role that stargates play in the cloning system itself. The brain image of a soon-to-be-deceased capsuleer is transmited via the stargate network to the medical facility where his/her clone is located.

Oh, and, finally, this would mean that micro jump drives are not appropriately named, as they would be more of a mid-range between MWDs and proper system-wide warp drives.

PS. I won't even get started on acceleration gates. They are basically supposed to be gigantic railguns mass accelerators that can fire battleship-sized loads at warp velocity...
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#9 - 2014-05-14 21:06:56 UTC
Sarah Flinnley wrote:
Warp is standard propulsion at greater then light speeds. The star gates 'fold' space making huge distance be able to travel instantaneously. FTL speeds are great for inter system travel. But how many light years is it between the Sol system and our nearest neighbor? Years.

Hope this makes since. It's late here. I'm tired, and don't want to dig out my copy of Eve Source at the moment. If no one clears things up more for you I'll take a peek into the stargate section of the Source and respond coherently tomorrow.

warp is the folding of space around your ship. Standard propulsion as we understand it cannot break the lightspeed barrier.

stargates utilize artificial wormholes.

actually just different forms of folding lol.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-16 16:50:15 UTC
Gabriel Dube wrote:
Warp clearly isn't conventional propulsion, as warp disruption effects do not affect your standard (reaction drive) propulsion. At least, we don't need to reach anywhere close to 100% light speed for in-system warp. That alone makes things MUCH easier for theorycrafting.


EVE ships actually warp much, much faster than 100% of lightspeed. they measure their warp speeds in AU per second: an AU is about eight and a half light minutes. Which means that even battleships at a paltry 2AU/s have a warp cruise speed of about 1000C.

A Cheetah can do more than twelve thousand times the speed of light.

Incidentally if you're a fan of Star Trek, then warp 9.8 (hellishly fast in that setting) is about the same speed as a cruiser gets up to.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Gabriel Dube
Outer Planets Alliance
#11 - 2014-05-18 07:49:49 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Gabriel Dube wrote:
Warp clearly isn't conventional propulsion, as warp disruption effects do not affect your standard (reaction drive) propulsion. At least, we don't need to reach anywhere close to 100% light speed for in-system warp. That alone makes things MUCH easier for theorycrafting.


EVE ships actually warp much, much faster than 100% of lightspeed. they measure their warp speeds in AU per second: an AU is about eight and a half light minutes. Which means that even battleships at a paltry 2AU/s have a warp cruise speed of about 1000C.

A Cheetah can do more than twelve thousand times the speed of light.

Incidentally if you're a fan of Star Trek, then warp 9.8 (hellishly fast in that setting) is about the same speed as a cruiser gets up to.


Thanks for the correction. I totally forgot about the AU/sec warp speed measurement being canonical information. Although I always figured this was a subjective or relative value, as time dilation would matter very much at that kind of speed, which would also amount to time travel since the ship doesn't travel the same distance in the same amount of time for someone inside it than for someone on the outside.