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What is the point of eve?

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Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-05-12 11:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
[...]

See, in the early days, game designers, being mostly nice, middle class brainy folks, couldn't conceive that, given the opportunity, people would find more fun in being little ***** than in exploring and interacting with a rich, virtual environment, in the company of others. There's an interview with Lord British somewhere, in which he talks about virtually meeting one of Ultima Online's early, notorious griefers, and asking him why he did it: the griefer's response was (IIRC) "because you let me."

[...]


See, I don't really have experience with the ganking aspect of the game, but I always read, that with few exceptions, it's a team effort.
So .. Those gankers explore and interact with a rich, virtual environment, making plans and organize equipment for the tasks they choose to pursue, in the company of their friends, to blow up others.


Oh for sure, but in a context that makes no sense whatsoever, a context that's purely, nakedly and obviously gamey-game.

These games are a balance between simulation (and immersion, playing pretend) and game (in which players are competing against each other) - otherwise we might as well still be playing Pong or emailing spreadsheets at each other, or just playing Chess or Draughts, right? No need for a graphics department, even.

In no possible universe does it make any simulation-side sense whatsoever that a "state"-like (or multi-state sanctioned) organization that's prepared to blow up wrongdoers would leave the loot from wrecks blown up by said wrongdoers lying around to be hoovered up by said wrongdoers or their chums. From a simulation point of view, it's a silly mechanic. Either there's no CONCORD, no policing, and there's a free-for-all (as per null and low), or there's CONCORD, there's policing, there are relatively civilized areas, and "suicide ganking" couldn't possibly be a thing. Suicide, yes, but suicide and subsequent looting of the victim? Absurd.

Nobody's being bad or wrong on either side here, it is what it is - but what it is is, is ... well, kind of stupid, really.

And, of course, it alienates many new players - but they're the "wrong type" of player for the game anyway.

The right type of player is the type of player who fairly quickly develops Stockholm Syndrome :)
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#82 - 2014-05-12 12:19:14 UTC
Betty Sue wrote:
I'm asking this as a serious question. I have played this game off and on since 2005. I have tired abit of everything but all that seems to happen to me anyhow is crap.

I will give 2 examples that happened to me this weekend alone.

was moving around 300mil worth of random items to sell and in a 0.8 sec system as I was leaving a station boom blown up nothing I could do and icing on the cake he pop'd my pod to so I lost around 1 bil ISK in total. Whatever **** happens so I moved on

I stop playing before the wormhole stuff got really interesting so I figured I'd take a look see what its like, get a cheap probe ship going found a wormhole go into it fly to an asteroid belt and BOOM jumped by like 50 guys the destroy my ship and then spent around 40 mins flying around my pod laughing at me in local chat. I didn't care much cause I was just playing an alt running missions and I'm use to that ****.

So I put up with the type of stuff all the time I always seem to get this short end of the stick, I've tried to get into corps but have never had luck, I tired PVP but it always seems people are in groups and all the stuff I read that your suppose to be able to go at solo never plays out. I do mission running on my main account but honestly that great very boring very fast

So I'm just wondering what really is the point of this game? so far all I've gotten out of it is I will put in hours of my free time make money just to loose a good chunk of it to some ******* or group of *******.

Regardless of how it sounds I do enjoy the game but I feel like I am missing a very large part of it, any pointers someone could give me would be most welcome


Hello Betty Sue.

I have read between the lines and I must say that for someone who is allegedly an older, experienced EVE player, you certainly made an error of judgement when you "fitted" that Nereus you lost a few days ago. I won't post that killmail link as it's not allowed on these forums, but really ? Just cargo expanders and carrying 27 Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir units. Not a hint of armor to soak-up that first alpha coming from a single Tornado ?

I have to question the validity of your statement here. What is there for you to do ? I would suggest you look inwards and ask yourself honestly how angry you still are at your own lack of judgement in how you went about losing a very poorly fitted ship, loaded with lots of expensive modules. In any event, a loss of 464,964,778.00 ISK is nothing, you seem to say you don't care about that. With a fitting like that, I simply do not believe you.

A final suggestion otherwise is that you ask for help in hauling, what to haul, how much to haul and what fittings to use if you are using ships such as Nereus.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#83 - 2014-05-12 12:21:12 UTC
Betty Sue wrote:
I'm asking this as a serious question. I have played this game off and on since 2005. I have tired abit of everything but all that seems to happen to me anyhow is crap.

I will give 2 examples that happened to me this weekend alone.

was moving around 300mil worth of random items to sell and in a 0.8 sec system as I was leaving a station boom blown up nothing I could do and icing on the cake he pop'd my pod to so I lost around 1 bil ISK in total. Whatever **** happens so I moved on

I stop playing before the wormhole stuff got really interesting so I figured I'd take a look see what its like, get a cheap probe ship going found a wormhole go into it fly to an asteroid belt and BOOM jumped by like 50 guys the destroy my ship and then spent around 40 mins flying around my pod laughing at me in local chat. I didn't care much cause I was just playing an alt running missions and I'm use to that ****.

So I put up with the type of stuff all the time I always seem to get this short end of the stick, I've tried to get into corps but have never had luck, I tired PVP but it always seems people are in groups and all the stuff I read that your suppose to be able to go at solo never plays out. I do mission running on my main account but honestly that great very boring very fast

So I'm just wondering what really is the point of this game? so far all I've gotten out of it is I will put in hours of my free time make money just to loose a good chunk of it to some ******* or group of *******.

Regardless of how it sounds I do enjoy the game but I feel like I am missing a very large part of it, any pointers someone could give me would be most welcome


I might be late to this here rodeo, but did you really just ask what the point of a video game is?

Also, EVE is an MMO, the ultimate power to be had in the game isn't the ships you fly or your character's amount of SP. It's the friends you make., the more the better.

As i always say, don't be surprised about being shot at in a game that gives you guns....
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#84 - 2014-05-12 12:27:28 UTC
To build a little space empire of pixels.

Not today spaghetti.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#85 - 2014-05-12 12:46:27 UTC
I play coz I love space ships and no other MMO has given me the same thrill / adrenalin rush as in Eve.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#86 - 2014-05-12 13:04:05 UTC
Betty Sue wrote:
I'm asking this as a serious question. I have played this game off and on since 2005. I have tired abit of everything but all that seems to happen to me anyhow is crap.

I will give 2 examples that happened to me this weekend alone.

was moving around 300mil worth of random items to sell and in a 0.8 sec system as I was leaving a station boom blown up nothing I could do and icing on the cake he pop'd my pod to so I lost around 1 bil ISK in total. Whatever **** happens so I moved on

I stop playing before the wormhole stuff got really interesting so I figured I'd take a look see what its like, get a cheap probe ship going found a wormhole go into it fly to an asteroid belt and BOOM jumped by like 50 guys the destroy my ship and then spent around 40 mins flying around my pod laughing at me in local chat. I didn't care much cause I was just playing an alt running missions and I'm use to that ****.

So I put up with the type of stuff all the time I always seem to get this short end of the stick, I've tried to get into corps but have never had luck, I tired PVP but it always seems people are in groups and all the stuff I read that your suppose to be able to go at solo never plays out. I do mission running on my main account but honestly that great very boring very fast

So I'm just wondering what really is the point of this game? so far all I've gotten out of it is I will put in hours of my free time make money just to loose a good chunk of it to some ******* or group of *******.

Regardless of how it sounds I do enjoy the game but I feel like I am missing a very large part of it, any pointers someone could give me would be most welcome


Point of EVE is exactly what you're talking about. Tears. And since when do wormholes have local chat?
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#87 - 2014-05-12 13:08:13 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
And since when do wormholes have local chat?

Since forever. But the memberlist is delayed so you don't show up in local until you say something.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#88 - 2014-05-12 13:11:43 UTC
Betty Sue wrote:
I'm asking this as a serious question. I have played this game off and on since 2005. I have tired abit of everything but all that seems to happen to me anyhow is crap.

I will give 2 examples that happened to me this weekend alone.

was moving around 300mil worth of random items to sell and in a 0.8 sec system as I was leaving a station boom blown up nothing I could do and icing on the cake he pop'd my pod to so I lost around 1 bil ISK in total. Whatever **** happens so I moved on

I stop playing before the wormhole stuff got really interesting so I figured I'd take a look see what its like, get a cheap probe ship going found a wormhole go into it fly to an asteroid belt and BOOM jumped by like 50 guys the destroy my ship and then spent around 40 mins flying around my pod laughing at me in local chat. I didn't care much cause I was just playing an alt running missions and I'm use to that ****.

So I put up with the type of stuff all the time I always seem to get this short end of the stick, I've tried to get into corps but have never had luck, I tired PVP but it always seems people are in groups and all the stuff I read that your suppose to be able to go at solo never plays out. I do mission running on my main account but honestly that great very boring very fast

So I'm just wondering what really is the point of this game? so far all I've gotten out of it is I will put in hours of my free time make money just to loose a good chunk of it to some ******* or group of *******.

Regardless of how it sounds I do enjoy the game but I feel like I am missing a very large part of it, any pointers someone could give me would be most welcome

Give brave newbies a try. You can join many different group activites or do solo when you want. They will help do what you want to do in this game.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-05-12 13:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
It's a video game. The point is to have fun. For some people, station trading and hauling are fun. Hell, some weirdos even like mining (or at least it provides a chance to multitask). If you aren't having fun doing one thing, find another. If nothing in EVE is fun for you, cancel your sub and find a game you like.

As for getting blown up, well, it's part of the game and encourages safe practices.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#90 - 2014-05-12 13:17:57 UTC
The point of EVE Online is to make yourself richer while making the other guy poorer.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#91 - 2014-05-12 13:24:55 UTC
The purpose of Eve...good question.
Ignoring the people that make a living off of Eve, it, like all other games, is to create a diversion from our real lives, something to keep us entertained.

It is to give is some modicum of excitement (or conversely, relaxation for some) and happiness, no matter how you play it.
Bottom line, when the unpleasant aspects of the game outweigh the parts that give someone pleasure, that person should, and in most cases, will quit Eve, or any game for that matter.

CCP is about to get an object lesson in that over the coming months.
In fact, it appears to have started, given that CCP refuses to release the numbers to calculate subs, and for the first time ever, their marketing dept is not proclaiming 11 years of unbroken growth.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2014-05-12 13:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Bottom line, when the unpleasant aspects of the game outweigh the parts that give someone pleasure, that person should, and in most cases, will quit Eve, or any game for that matter.
So why haven't you?

Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
In no possible universe does it make any simulation-side sense whatsoever that a "state"-like (or multi-state sanctioned) organization that's prepared to blow up wrongdoers would leave the loot from wrecks blown up by said wrongdoers lying around to be hoovered up by said wrongdoers or their chums. From a simulation point of view, it's a silly mechanic. Either there's no CONCORD, no policing, and there's a free-for-all (as per null and low), or there's CONCORD, there's policing, there are relatively civilized areas, and "suicide ganking" couldn't possibly be a thing. Suicide, yes, but suicide and subsequent looting of the victim? Absurd.
Not particularly. Partly because of the lore built into CONCORD and partly because the simulation-side is intentionally left as thin as possible.

CONCORD is there to police aggression, not petty theft — that's something the capsuleers are meant to handle themselves. It's simply a cost mechanic that enables and ensures point payments for individual acts, as opposed to the mass rebate that is offered by wardecs.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#93 - 2014-05-12 13:49:49 UTC
What is the point of life?



Yes I am writing of Philosophy paper right now.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#94 - 2014-05-12 13:51:54 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

CCP is about to get an object lesson in that over the coming months.
.


Dino's got some big stuff goin' on. Biiiigggg Stuff.

I hear they made him... The Decider

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inePC0E_atg

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solete Fonulique
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2014-05-12 14:48:03 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
What is the point of life?



Yes I am writing of Philosophy paper right now.

Could you send it to me when you're done? I can't figure out the purpose of life. Grow up, have children, continue your family. What's the point in it if you're going to die and nothing you did matters anymore, it's really annoying me because I can't figure out what the point in staying alive is.
Anyway.
@OP, I think you're unlucky. I joined a month or 2 ago and in that time I have yet to meet anyone while in a wh and I live in one half the time. Yes, this is an alt. I don't dscan and forget to cloak half the time.

Forum alt.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#96 - 2014-05-12 15:06:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Bottom line, when the unpleasant aspects of the game outweigh the parts that give someone pleasure, that person should, and in most cases, will quit Eve, or any game for that matter.
So why haven't you?


For the same reason he hasn't gone on to play any of the dozens of (themepark) games that do things in a way he would actually seem to like: in those games he can't define himself as the plucky freedom fighter struggling against injustice and GoonGreed.

The irony is that if EVE ever became what he says he wants it to be, people like the Goons (at least some of them) would still play (like how some of them still play Star Trek Online even with it's heavy handed moderation and GMs) while he'd leave because it's "just not the game he fell in love with" lol.
Solecist Project
#97 - 2014-05-12 15:07:57 UTC
Solete Fonulique wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
What is the point of life?



Yes I am writing of Philosophy paper right now.

Could you send it to me when you're done? I can't figure out the purpose of life. Grow up, have children, continue your family. What's the point in it if you're going to die and nothing you did matters anymore, it's really annoying me because I can't figure out what the point in staying alive is.
Anyway.
@OP, I think you're unlucky. I joined a month or 2 ago and in that time I have yet to meet anyone while in a wh and I live in one half the time. Yes, this is an alt. I don't dscan and forget to cloak half the time.

If it annoys you to not see the point on living,
then attempt to end it.

You'll notice you won't get very far even only attempting it,
and what keeps you from doing it will provide you with enough food for thought for a while.

This isn't meant as encouragement to drive you to suicide,
but if you can't find a solution, try feeding yourself with new input.

Please note that this only works if you are taking it actually serious.
Just imagining it doesn't work.

PS: Please don't kill yourself... :(

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-05-12 15:18:33 UTC
Solete Fonulique wrote:
Could you send it to me when you're done? I can't figure out the purpose of life. Grow up, have children, continue your family. What's the point in it if you're going to die and nothing you did matters anymore, it's really annoying me because I can't figure out what the point in staying alive is.
Anyway.
@OP, I think you're unlucky. I joined a month or 2 ago and in that time I have yet to meet anyone while in a wh and I live in one half the time. Yes, this is an alt. I don't dscan and forget to cloak half the time.

You can send me an evemail anytime and we can talk.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2014-05-12 22:43:05 UTC
Next time, use Red Frog.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-05-13 01:59:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Partly because of the lore built into CONCORD and partly because the simulation-side is intentionally left as thin as possible.


Yes, that's what I'm saying, and that's what I'm saying is a bit unfortunate - it's not that there's anything wrong with it in any absolute sense, EVE is what it is and functions well as what it is; but what is is, is a bit thin on the simulation, and suicide ganking (specifically, the aspect that ganked wrecks are "lootable" by anybody other than the state-like, or state-sanctioned force doing the interdicting) is an example of something that doesn't really make much sim sense. It's highly unlikely that "loot" would be just left there - especially that it would be left there for chums of a ganker to nab. It would be either kept by the state-like system, or impounded, or held in escrow, or something like that.

IOW, "suicide ganking" being a thing, makes sense in the context of EVE as a PvP game centred around a cycle of destruction/creation, with licence to be a virtual ****, and a fairly loose sense of preciousness about one's stuff. But it doesn't make much sense.

And it's things like that - the not-making-sense aspect - that I think turns off a fair few people. It's just immersion-jarring - it's like seeing inside the sausage factory for a moment.