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Dev Blog: Delivering The Industry New Eden Deserves!

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Marsan
#81 - 2014-05-12 20:04:58 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Nice to see you decided to listen to me, and oh , I dunno, about 10,000 others, and do something wise.
Now, if you REALLY get your act together, you will deploy the 1st iteration on Sisi, and give us not 5 or 6 weeks, but more like 8-10 weeks to sort this out.

You gave us 5-6 weeks for Apochrypha, and that release was a drop in the bucket compared to the far-reaching implications this mess has.

Use your head, give us, and yourselves, the entire summer , to sort out everything, to test every lever, every nuance, where tiny changes will have huge impact. It will also stem the bleeding of subs, and you might actually recognize how much damage this will wreak on the game, and your company.


Its not gonna take 8-10 weeks for you to figure out you're gonna get plowed by null-sec industrialists



I'll believe that when I see it. Sure there will be a bunch of NS folks, and renters taking advantage of the profit to be made in NS. Sure there will be a number of things entirely manufactured in NS and hauled to Jita. But in the end most of industry will be in HS, because most indy players are loners and want to remain loners. Not to mention they like the safety of of HS, and ease of logistics.


At best you might convince them to move to Provi or similar open NS enclaves, but they won't join a renter corp or a NS corp deep in NS. The NS folks are never going to corner manufacturing on most goods because it's just too boring, and profit margins in any given market will be too low if most people build it in NS. (Which is not to say NS manufacturing won't be very profitable on a smaller scale where higher HS costs set the price of a given good.)

PS- Arguing the tech cartel of old as an example misses the point that tech moons were a limited resource, while outposts in NS are a dime a dozen. Also NS groups depend on renters who will be able, and willing to under cut any attempts at price fixing.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#82 - 2014-05-12 20:08:13 UTC
I approve this message.

Seriously, this delay is 100% pure and good.
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2014-05-12 20:14:54 UTC
This is a good idea. Very reasonable thing to do in this situation.

Plus we are still getting the Prospect on June 3rd, so I'm happy. That alone is sure to keep me busy a few weeks.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2014-05-12 20:30:06 UTC
Two step wrote:
Hopefully this means the API changes for the new industry stuff are going to definitely make the release, it sounded like at FF they might follow afterwards.
An updated SDE and updated/new APIs is what CCP FoxFour and CCP Nullarbor are planning with their teams.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#85 - 2014-05-12 20:30:25 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Nice to see you decided to listen to me, and oh , I dunno, about 10,000 others, and do something wise.
Now, if you REALLY get your act together, you will deploy the 1st iteration on Sisi, and give us not 5 or 6 weeks, but more like 8-10 weeks to sort this out.

You gave us 5-6 weeks for Apochrypha, and that release was a drop in the bucket compared to the far-reaching implications this mess has.

Use your head, give us, and yourselves, the entire summer , to sort out everything, to test every lever, every nuance, where tiny changes will have huge impact. It will also stem the bleeding of subs, and you might actually recognize how much damage this will wreak on the game, and your company.


You'll have plenty of time to test on SiSi, but you will never be able to test the most meaningful aspect of what is going to make it or break it for you: what the plethora of other players do in reaction to it. You can test game mechanics all day long, but so much of the indy revamp is related to player choices. You just won't be able to test that on SiSi.


Agreed on the social part. Sisi never gets the crowd on it to get a true picture.
But at least some enterprising, focused group could try ramming through a ton of industry in one system to see how quickly it ramps up in cost. Unfortunately, that group will be the goons, looking for ways to exploit the system that they don't already know.
Hoban Gallifrey
New Eden University
#86 - 2014-05-12 20:30:29 UTC
RainReaper wrote:
...so... no highsec pos refining and compression array for another 6 weeks?


9 weeks.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#87 - 2014-05-12 20:31:22 UTC
Droidyk wrote:
Does it also mean that everything visual, audio and graphical industry related stuff will be moved to 22 July as well ?
If a part of the industry feature, yes; but only the industry-specific things.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2014-05-12 20:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But at least some enterprising, focused group could try ramming through a ton of industry in one system to see how quickly it ramps up in cost. Unfortunately, that group will be the goons, looking for ways to exploit the system that they don't already know.

Why is it unfortunate that the system is tested and the mechanics made clear? It seems to be the exact reason why we even have sisi, and it's the reason why people will flock to it to probe those mechanics. Oh, and everyone already knows how to exploit the system — hint: it involves a lot of highsec work.
Kaius Fero
#89 - 2014-05-12 20:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Agreed on the social part. Sisi never gets the crowd on it to get a true picture.
But at least some enterprising, focused group could try ramming through a ton of industry in one system to see how quickly it ramps up in cost. Unfortunately, that group will be the goons, looking for ways to exploit the system that they don't already know.

Nope, everybody whom take EVE and their profession seriously will be on SISI, it's mandatory.

*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

Anselmo & The Illegals
Potions Master
GearBunny
#90 - 2014-05-12 20:39:58 UTC
Can we get a definitive list of what is going to be in Kronos? It's hard to really see what's part of the industry revamp and what wasn't.

Btw: It would still be nice to get some of the things from the industry patches that are ready to use, such as the refining/compression arrays and the prospect. The ore stuff and tower updates certainly don't need the rest of the industry parts to run right? Part of your new release paradigm is that you can release stuff that's ready and hold off the stuff that isn't for 6 weeks... so break things up so you can release the bigger things in parts (Such as industry... I don't see why the ore/refining/tower stuff needs to be delayed when it looks ready.) Also, would love to see it all on Singularity sooner rather than later... :)
Max Goldwing
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-05-12 20:41:17 UTC
Isotope jump usage increase which release ?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#92 - 2014-05-12 20:46:01 UTC
Max Goldwing wrote:
Isotope jump usage increase which release ?

Crius.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#93 - 2014-05-12 20:54:41 UTC
So... last expansion of old release cycle is even smaller than before? Well, that's... interesting.

Invalid signature format
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-05-12 20:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

Back on topic, frankly it is going to be good to see some dev action in the feedback threads now there is a bit of elbow room for them.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#95 - 2014-05-12 20:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Sounds good. Gives us more time to test these things on Singularity which is a good move.

So are there any major changes which are going to happen as a result of feedback you have received so far? I assume some things will be changing or else the expansion wouldn't have been pushed back.

Also is there any ETA on when the invention changes are coming? I reckon that you may as well just get these all finished and release it together as a whole patch. There is no point in releasing things half baked now that we have expansions every 6 weeks.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#96 - 2014-05-12 21:05:21 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
So... last expansion of old release cycle is even smaller than before? Well, that's... interesting.
The Kronos release on 3 June is the first release in the new model.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#97 - 2014-05-12 21:05:55 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Good by me. I was getting worried that you weren't going to release the data and changes on sisi in time to test third party tools. Can you give an estimate for when we can expect this? I would really like to get an updated version of iph up when the patch goes live and sisi testing will be key to that.

Thanks


The plan is to push the changes to SiSi around June 10 with APIs, giving people around 5 weeks to help test and update their tools.

Fantastic. Thanks!

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Ralitge boyter
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2014-05-12 21:14:13 UTC
Thank you, looking at the amount of stuff that is being changed updated and improved it is a good thing to see CCP taking the high road and admitting that the time available till the next release is not enough to get all the work done and tested before than. Thanks to the process improvements that allow the higher number of releases this means we are not going to have to wait 10 years for this to be implemented... like comments Shocked
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#99 - 2014-05-12 21:25:00 UTC
So long as you are changing it to allow me to invent a Megatron Federate Issue out of Mexalon, Skiff, and Projectile ammo... BearAwesomesause

Seriously though, it would be great to have ACTUAL examples of how some of these new industry/research systems will work.

Also, considering you gave us players 2 WHOLE MONTHS with the Unified Inventory change on SiSi, during which many begged you to postpone and change...and you still released it in a poorly broken/not-thought-out-well state. How exactly is "6 weeks" going to be an sufficient amount of testing time, when it is also during the period of time most of CCP runs away from work and nothing Eve-wise gets touched for a couple of months?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#100 - 2014-05-12 21:27:27 UTC
Freighter and Jump Freighter rebalancing - Kinda industry, but also ship rabalancing...

Kronos or Crius??