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Why Eve isn't more popular?

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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#81 - 2014-05-12 18:31:52 UTC
Eve does need new PvE if not more and less griefing thinly disguised as being part of the game... the latter alone would make the game alot more popular...

Tal
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#82 - 2014-05-12 18:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Fine Jenn but any business cannot exist with a few "elite " customers at a mainstream price.
How much is EvE worth to you?


Probably the same to her as it is to me;

Nothing at all if they change the model to encourage WoWHeads and CoDkids


Is that the only choice?

Or is an option to make it so there is more chance of encountering a good player experience than a bad, to meet with like minded people rather than to just be prey to someones baser desires, until they have the strength and love of the game to deal with that and laugh it off?

Or is the point of new players simply to provide a steady supply of victims?


So wait..

Are you saying you want more "elite" customers?

Or more skinwastes?

I agree, PvE is terrible, mostly because it appeals to the skinwastes and not the good players.

I dont know how you view new players, but I dont consider noobs victims and I look very badly on anyone who does.

New players and skinwastes are not the same thing by the way. A new player subscribes for a start.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#83 - 2014-05-12 18:36:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
"free to play" junk.


Id just like to say WoT is fun to me, though on the pC I became slightly addicted to gold for a while

But its as cruel as mistress as EvE

Either you understand armour physics or you dont, simples

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-05-12 18:36:19 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Confirming that it's completely impossible to scale a business (and its costs) to match the size of its market.

IMPOSSIBLE!

As it is, EVE attracts people that actually have a brain, like this ^^ guy for example. Thank you CCP.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dave stark
#85 - 2014-05-12 18:36:44 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Eve does need new PvE if not more and less griefing thinly disguised as being part of the game... the latter alone would make the game alot more popular...

Tal







so what you're saying is it needs more of the boring bits, and less of the interesting bits?
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#86 - 2014-05-12 18:37:22 UTC
Also, it is surprising to me that B-R supposedly is what draws people to EVE. As someone who is familiar with EVE, those fights don't interest me at all. I also don't remember seeing that sort of thing advertised the first few times I tried to play EVE. Or at least it didn't grab my attention. I wanted to play simply because it was a sci-fi MMO with cool looking spaceships. But I suppose I'm a bit of a weirdo in that "epic" stuff in general doesn't impress me.

Also also, EVE is pretty when you zoom in and press CNTRL-F9. But more often than not there's a mess of windows all over the screen, you're zoomed out so far you can't see any ship models, and your eyes are glued to a spreadsheet on the right hand side of the screen. I think this is the main reason people don't stick with the game. Its not exactly immersive.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#87 - 2014-05-12 18:38:46 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

they try to release an expansion every 6 months but it is usually just a patch, and it has to do with the terrible representation of the player base.


I know, those new ships, modules and items are just patches and I hate how Im misrepresented in the press

Damn those paparazzi


Been playing 6 years, Apocrypha was the last expansion that would be considered an expansion and not patch in any other successful game.

Whatever definition you choose to use is fine by me, I'm simply going by the industry standard set forth by other successful companies.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-05-12 18:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
PvE is ****, correct, but how is it different from other games and their pve? PvE is basically always tedious and boring, its Always a grind.

If Im wrong, please show me another mmo with meaningfull and "exciting" and tell me what is so different about it.

Over a million people play world of Warcraft. Pretty sure the boring pve aspect holds true there too.

If Eve had better pve it might have more appeal to those types of players but on the scale of pitiful to guild wars (which I think has a very good pve system), eve is closer to the pitiful section. For instance, One of my friends said the thing he disliked was the lack of being able to 'see' all the ships, zoom didn't really do it for him. So you shoot plus symbols...in the same reoccurring missions or grind away at the same asteroid....

The OP has a point. However, if CCP wants a niche game that supports a certain type of player, pve doesn't really matter. That wasn't his question though.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#89 - 2014-05-12 18:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Jenn aSide wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Fine Jenn but any business cannot exist with a few "elite " customers at a mainstream price.
How much is EvE worth to you?


There it is, the fear that underpins the 'EVE is dying' and 'More subs now!" thinking that pops up everyday on EVE related forums. The fear that a beloved pastime will go away if it doesn't grow/gain popularity at a certain arbitrary rate.

CCP isn't showing any signs of distress. Our game is safe for now, and if history is an indicator, for years to come.

And I will add that 15 bucks a month isn't a mainstream price in a market filled with "free to play" junk.


15 bucks a month is fine. No problem.
That is mainstream, and well worth it, some of us pay two or three times that as we want the options, and happily pay the money rather than Grind for plex to pay for free each month.

But Jen are there enough of us, I do not know?

I believe that new customers should be encouraged to want to stay, so that they gain a love and confidence in the game to move on into the wider game and join good corps where they become long term customers.

The missioning, mining, industry sides of eve have lagged horribly behind, and the blacker sides of eve have had all the growth.

Faction warfare, for example has become button spinning or getting jumped or jumping on others with boosted gangs.
There is nowhere that people can 1v1 PvP without getting whelped. One engages ten jump in and kill.
Hey I do it myself, thats the way it is set up, shame to waste the opportunity for some fun. But no way is it a place for a novice alone.

So not new player friendly unless they have already made the jump into a corp or group.
It was meant to be a proving ground, where people could earn their spurs, with 1v1 PvP , and gain experience and have fun.
Now it is a place to go to kill things, not to fight.

That is a real example of the issues.
No clear pathway to progression from new player to hunter without just being a victim or prey.

So currently the new player experience is to be there for existing players exploitation.

Hardly going to make people stay is it?
Oh look, they don'tRoll

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#90 - 2014-05-12 18:45:27 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
You warp into a level 4 mission and there are rows of red x's all arranged in neat little blobs. They sit there dumbly as you start picking off the ones at the end and only actually shoot you back when you start attacking the ones in their own little blob. They don't remote rep at all, and apart from a couple of bosses their local rep is pathetic, they almost never web or scram you, and they don't try to escape before they are killed. Ewar between NPC's and players either doesn't work at all, or is mostly a chance based mockery of real player ewar that makes using it in PvE almost completely pointless.

So basically EVE PvE is current WoW in space. That is indeed something we didn't know before.

Also fixing a previous paragraph...

Neutrino Sunset wrote:
PvE is shite.

It's completely true, there's no denying it.




Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Another thing that was mentioned in the article was that most players who play Eve leave almost immediately, of those that don't most play entirely solo for a while and then leave later, and that very few engage with other players at all, but the one that do engage with other players tend to be the ones that stay. Well if that's the case and you want to do something to encourage new players to engage with other players, then instead of having the new player experience being nothing more than an introduction on how to run missions by yourself, why not instead have a new player experience that focuses instead on player interaction?

Good idea.

Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Here's a random thought. Instead of having new players start off in an NPC corp, why not have them start off in a Faction Warfare militia instead, and have a few extra simple missions just for brand new characters to ease them into it. They can always leave of course and revert to an NPC corp once they've completed the tutorial.

Bad idea. The only way out of a noob corp should be a player corp. A NPC corp should be something you don't want your avatar to be associated with.

Remove standings and insurance.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#91 - 2014-05-12 18:45:48 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
the industry standard set forth by other successful companies.


Like Hasbro, Games Workshop, Parker Brothers, Avalon Hill, Amarillo Design Bureau, EA, SSI, Wizards of The Coast, Catalyst Design Buerau, Konami, Activision, Microsoft, Fantasy Flight and Wargaming Inc?

Those companies you mean?

Because their definition appears to differ from yours as to how much minimum content is in an expansion.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#92 - 2014-05-12 18:45:58 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
"free to play" junk.


Id just like to say WoT is fun to me, though on the pC I became slightly addicted to gold for a while

But its as cruel as mistress as EvE

Either you understand armour physics or you dont, simples


I tried WoT, but all the vehicles were (wait for it........) -Armor Tankers- and i wanted to train shields. Freaking amarrians everywhere.

What? What do you mean step away from the EVE, you go to hell!!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#93 - 2014-05-12 18:49:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
"free to play" junk.


Id just like to say WoT is fun to me, though on the pC I became slightly addicted to gold for a while

But its as cruel as mistress as EvE

Either you understand armour physics or you dont, simples


I tried WoT, but all the vehicles were (wait for it........) -Armor Tankers- and i wanted to train shields. Freaking amarrians everywhere.

What? What do you mean step away from the EVE, you go to hell!!


PzII and M5 Stuart are speed tankers Blink


And a IS-2 parked in the right place makes fantastic tackle lol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Zack Korth
Livid CO.
#94 - 2014-05-12 18:54:32 UTC
I think for the same reason many people don't go to low or null sec- they like playing alone, you can play alone in EvE, but you'll never experience 80% of the game. Unfortunately, the fun stuff requires API keys, a constant presence on comms where people will talk about **** no one cares about in excess, and an abandonment of other types of gameplay. EvE is overwhelming to the new player, I wonder what the retention rate is, of people who create their first account, then go on to keep playing longer than a year, i'll bet it's pretty small.. in short, eve sucks at giving a good first impression, along with the illusion that you won't be good at anything for months, it takes a while to realize that eve is the only mmo worth playing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#95 - 2014-05-12 18:55:24 UTC
Zack Korth wrote:
I think for the same reason many people don't go to low or null sec- they like playing alone


Much easier to get in and out on your own than with a herd of cats

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#96 - 2014-05-12 18:56:08 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
What I dont understand is;

when several of the above posters say;

EvE is bad for new players because X Y Z make it a bad environment

Which is the game they currently pay to play.

This game is a free roaming environment.

The truth is that most so-called video game players either do not know what to do with this freedom or find it intimidating.

You cannot blame the poor single-player experience for why more people dont enjoy the open-ended sandbox.

And you cannot say that the apple that is EvE is broken for not being an orange.

This pretty much.

People are used to being told what to do in a game.

Remove standings and insurance.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-05-12 18:57:52 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Faction warfare, for example has become button spinning or getting jumped or jumping on others with boosted gangs.
There is nowhere that people can 1v1 PvP without getting whelped. One engages ten jump in and kill.
Hey I do it myself, thats the way it is set up, shame to waste the opportunity for some fun. But no way is it a place for a novice alone.

So not new player friendly unless they have already made the jump into a corp or group.
It was meant to be a proving ground, where people could earn their spurs, with 1v1 PvP , and gain experience and have fun.
Now it is a place to go to kill things, not to fight.

Mate, this is simply not true. Seriously, do you even know what you're talking about? I get tons of 1v1s in FW, since I joined (solo at first) as a 1-month old player.

Also, what's with this 'used to be great, now it's bad' crap??? I've been playing just 9 months, but I'd bet 100 PLEX that EVE was ALWAYS about 10v1 gangbangs, if the '1' doesn't pay attention.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Beta Maoye
#98 - 2014-05-12 19:02:12 UTC
Staying in EVE is not about whether a player like to social or not. Both PVE and PVP players love social interaction with other players. Actually I think PVE players chat in private channel mostly for the purpose of social interaction. PVP players banded together for mixed reasons including social interaction, tactical advantage, political participation, intelligence exchange.

EVE is PVP. Generally speaking, 80% of game players are average players. Average players love PVE. Only 20% of game players with highly competitive character love PVP activities. They have the desire to win, the desire to overcome challenge, the desire to succeed. I think these characteristics are essential for those newbies who can stay in EVE and become long term players. When the best resources, best ships, best spaces are in the hand of veteran, new players really need to have iron will to stay to fight and compete with the elders.
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
#99 - 2014-05-12 19:10:37 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

▬▬► Features & Ideas Discussion
FuryBot™ 0.86



To put that post in Features & Ideas Discussion will only get it closed since the mods will say it hasnt a New idea or something. Further OP has more come With a opinion than an idea and mods loves to Close Down threads that have a negative view on eve.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#100 - 2014-05-12 19:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
CCP isn't showing any signs of distress.


Read their 2013 financial statement.

Quote:
Because their definition appears to differ from yours as to how much minimum content is in an expansion.


Still more than anything CCP has released since Tuesday, 10th March 2009.

Also, CCP admitted as much and changed their rollout structure.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it