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There has been only one MMO I PVP'd in
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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#61 - 2014-05-12 11:55:26 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:

Being aware and avoiding getting killed by players means you are already PvP'ing :)
But you are right, nobody should force or attempt to force others to take a more active part in PvP. It's a perfectly valid playstyle not to do so.

But it's also perfectly valid to bring PvP to those people, to hunt them and trying to destroy their ships and pods. So they better be aware of that.

And this combination makes for a more exciting environment for everyone, imo.


Couldn't agree more!


And you have my Ax!

(That's Dwarven for "Yes, kind Sir, my opinion is complimentary to thine own considerations on this particular topic of discussion")

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2014-05-12 12:07:08 UTC
From what I can gather through reading this post is that the general consensus for PvP is to fight those that do not want to engage in it.
Surely more fun would be had by fighting someone who wants to fight and who knows how to fight other than someone who wants no part in it. If they are in low or null sec then they are valid targets, but not when they are in hi sec. The way I see it is that those who actively hunt in hi sec for people who don't want to fight are a little frightened they may meet their match elsewhere and lose bragging rights.
I am aware that the majority of PvPers do only fight those who are capable of giving a good fight but there are a lot who don't.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#63 - 2014-05-12 12:20:24 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
From what I can gather through reading this post is that the general consensus for PvP is to fight those that do not want to engage in it.


Actually, its more that people will attempt to kill you, so if you don't want to fight, there are plenty of things you can do and learn to save your life.

Also, these things will also save you against PVE opponents too.

But I should interject that EvE is not a game that rewards engaging when outclassed, or that the concept of a "fair fight" even exists in this game.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2014-05-12 12:43:33 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
From what I can gather through reading this post is that the general consensus for PvP is to fight those that do not want to engage in it.




But I should interject that EvE is not a game that rewards engaging when outclassed, or that the concept of a "fair fight" even exists in this game.


I agree with you.

I just think it strange how so many people adopt the mentality of attacking those that have no desire or means to fight instead of fighting someone who could fight back. The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient. If all (pvp) combat except for war decs was taken away from hi-sec I would wager any amount of isk that there would be a large number of people saying the game has been spoilt for them. In other words because they could no longer hunt non willing or non abled combatants the game would be gone for them. The majority of PvPers would not be affected the griefers and gankers would be mortified.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#65 - 2014-05-12 13:03:37 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient.



Proof or it's a lie.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2014-05-12 13:31:45 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient.



Proof or it's a lie.


you want proof of a concept???
Velicitia
XS Tech
#67 - 2014-05-12 13:36:09 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient.



Proof or it's a lie.


you want proof of a concept???


Yes, prove that the concept of "fair fight" exists, and that it is ignored when convenient.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#68 - 2014-05-12 13:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Shell Scott wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Shell Scott wrote:
Now that's a good idea. I'm a nub so I'll take my nub cormorant a couple systems over into lowsec. If only there were a way to predict what would happen to me?


How would it be different from being owned going into WSG because you don't know what's going on yet?



Because in WSG all players were around my level, all had similar gear, and no player vastly outclassed or out geared anyone else. You had a chance. I feel if I stick my head into lowsec or 0.0, I will have no chance.

Hi, Shell!

You shouldn't worry about skillpoints too much. There is always only a limited amount of SP
one can put to use in any activity. What counts far more is experience, that enables you to outclass
your opponents with wit and creativity.

The usual advice is to fit 50 rifters... or slashers in our modern times ... and just head to lowsec.

People will always give you advice if you contact them and ask for it,
once they blew you up. xD

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-05-12 13:55:50 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient.



Proof or it's a lie.


you want proof of a concept???


Yes, prove that the concept of "fair fight" exists, and that it is ignored when convenient.


I mean this with all respect.

Do you actually know what the word concept means?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#70 - 2014-05-12 14:00:02 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:

I just think it strange how so many people adopt the mentality of attacking those that have no desire or means to fight instead of fighting someone who could fight back. The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient. If all (pvp) combat except for war decs was taken away from hi-sec I would wager any amount of isk that there would be a large number of people saying the game has been spoilt for them. In other words because they could no longer hunt non willing or non abled combatants the game would be gone for them. The majority of PvPers would not be affected the griefers and gankers would be mortified.


I cant say Ive ever experienced or witnessed a fair fight, nor could even begin to describe how one could be arranged in EvE.

I dont see what War Decs have to do with it.

My alliance was recently wardecced with the specific purpose of harvesting as many unprepared noob minerds as possible in High Sec.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-05-12 14:07:13 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
[...]

I agree with you.

I just think it strange how so many people adopt the mentality of attacking those that have no desire or means to fight instead of fighting someone who could fight back. The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient. If all (pvp) combat except for war decs was taken away from hi-sec I would wager any amount of isk that there would be a large number of people saying the game has been spoilt for them. In other words because they could no longer hunt non willing or non abled combatants the game would be gone for them. The majority of PvPers would not be affected the griefers and gankers would be mortified.


I think the majority of people is not looking for a "fair fight" at all, in the sense you seem to understand a fight.
In my opinion, the fight begins long before the shooting starts. With selecting your ship, choosing your target (if applicable), gathering information, being aware, avoiding enemies you cannot defeat, or are not likely to defeat etc.
Sometimes, to reach a certain goal or maybe out of sheer desperation or because you can't get away, you may have to fight a fight with bad odds.

That's all part of the game, and I find that interesting.

Gankers may have all kinds of motivations. Some are selective with their targets and gank for profit. I've read about people suicide-ganking miners to get rid of or discourage competitors. Some may just do it for fun.
There is nothing inherently wrong with it. I'm sure ganking has its own challenges, especially if the target pays attention as there are a number of things to make gank-success less likely. Others mentioned those already.
That makes it sort of a fair fight after all. You can make the gankers fail.
Fighting back not only means shooting back.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#72 - 2014-05-12 14:09:01 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
The concept of a "Fair fight" does actually exist within the game but is ignored when it is convenient.



Proof or it's a lie.


you want proof of a concept???


Yes, prove that the concept of "fair fight" exists, and that it is ignored when convenient.


I mean this with all respect.

Do you actually know what the word concept means?


Every fight I've been in, you do anything and everything to get an advantage on the other guy.

so prove that within the confines of New Eden, there is a "conceptual fair fight" that exists but is ignored when convenient.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#73 - 2014-05-12 14:09:52 UTC
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:


I think the majority of people is not looking for a "fair fight" at all, in the sense you seem to understand a fight.
In my opinion, the fight begins long before the shooting starts. With selecting your ship, choosing your target (if applicable), gathering information, being aware, avoiding enemies you cannot defeat, or are not likely to defeat etc.
Sometimes, to reach a certain goal or maybe out of sheer desperation or because you can't get away, you may have to fight a fight with bad odds.

That's all part of the game, and I find that interesting.

Gankers may have all kinds of motivations. Some are selective with their targets and gank for profit. I've read about people suicide-ganking miners to get rid of or discourage competitors. Some may just do it for fun.
There is nothing inherently wrong with it. I'm sure ganking has its own challenges, especially if the target pays attention as there are a number of things to make gank-success less likely. Others mentioned those already.
That makes it sort of a fair fight after all. You can make the gankers fail.
Fighting back not only means shooting back.


Actually after reading this, Ive had a think and decided that;

Either there is no fair fights

Or

Every fight is fair.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solecist Project
#74 - 2014-05-12 14:21:57 UTC
Nature does not provide a concept of fairness.

It's: Eat or be eaten.

Fairness is an artificial construct created by human minds,
ignoring that equality does not and will never exist,
until it is forced onto everybody.

The end result would be that everybody would be forced
to be equal to the lowest and weakest...

... which is not only completely unnatural, but also opposite to progress and evolution.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-05-12 14:22:06 UTC

[/quote]

Every fight I've been in, you do anything and everything to get an advantage on the other guy.

so prove that within the confines of New Eden, there is a "conceptual fair fight" that exists but is ignored when convenient.[/quote]


Ok a fair fight in this instance is when 2 or more opposing parties AGREE to combat regardless of set ups, ships, locations etc etc, there does not need to be equal sides regards numbers, indeed one side can have a distinct advantage over the other but if ALL opposing sides agree to fight then it is "Fair" as all sides could if they want prepare for it. It gets conveniently ignored when only one side wishes to combat and gives the opposing side no warning or time to prepare.
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2014-05-12 14:23:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Nature does not provide a concept of fairness.

It's: Eat or be eaten.

Fairness is an artificial construct created by human minds,
ignoring that equality does not and will never exist,
until it is forced onto everybody.

The end result would be that everybody would be forced
to be equal to the lowest and weakest...

... which is not only completely unnatural, but also opposite to progress and evolution.


Actually nature does show a remarkable amount of fairness in that every animal knows what other animals it needs to avoid.
Solecist Project
#77 - 2014-05-12 14:35:46 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Nature does not provide a concept of fairness.

It's: Eat or be eaten.

Fairness is an artificial construct created by human minds,
ignoring that equality does not and will never exist,
until it is forced onto everybody.

The end result would be that everybody would be forced
to be equal to the lowest and weakest...

... which is not only completely unnatural, but also opposite to progress and evolution.


Actually nature does show a remarkable amount of fairness in that every animal knows what other animals it needs to avoid.
Animals learn to avoid dangerous animals.
It's not hard-coded into them.
At least I can't spontanously recall any.

Anyway, you are applying your idea of fairness to what is actually "balanced".

In the same sense I could say that the ships in EVE are "fair", but actually they are "balanced".

Hope that makes sense.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#78 - 2014-05-12 14:36:14 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:


Actually nature does show a remarkable amount of fairness in that every animal knows what other animals it needs to avoid.


Sure they do, laddie, sure they do

http://bit.ly/1nF3P8U

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#79 - 2014-05-12 14:38:52 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:

Ok a fair fight in this instance is when 2 or more opposing parties AGREE to combat regardless of set ups, ships, locations etc etc, there does not need to be equal sides regards numbers, indeed one side can have a distinct advantage over the other but if ALL opposing sides agree to fight then it is "Fair" as all sides could if they want prepare for it. It gets conveniently ignored when only one side wishes to combat and gives the opposing side no warning or time to prepare.


We will assume I accept this.

If EvE represents players taking the roles of citizens in vast star-empires...

Where does this fit in?

Its not piracy, industrial espionage or sabotage, its not warfare, its not gang-related killings, its not robbery, its not pub brawls, its not crime-fighting or vigilantism

What part of life does this reflect and why would I wish to participate?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-05-12 14:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
fair fightsLol


in EVELolLol


joke of the year. right there!

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:


Actually nature does show a remarkable amount of fairness in that every animal knows what other animals it needs to avoid.


Sure they do, laddie, sure they do

http://bit.ly/1nF3P8U



their meat was most excelent, according to reports.


then again, they were made by sailors that might've been traveling for far too long, so anything might taste as ambrosia by then.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right