These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Steam

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-05-12 07:06:23 UTC
Running private servers is not allowed under the EULA (specifically the restriction against creating derivative works of the software or reverse engineering it), and it's more explicitly prohibits in the TOS, "You may not create, provide or use any server emulator or other site where EVE Online may be played. You may not post or distribute emulators, software tools or utilities related to EVE Online without the express written permission of CCP."

Also, because the EULA restricts your right to modify the client, a consequence of that is that you cannot connect to a private server.

Why would you want to play on a private server anyway? Unlike many other games that are played on such servers, EVE requires a lot more interaction between players in order to function (i.e. the market)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-05-12 07:09:13 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:
The problem with pvp is that i do not like it and do not want to do it lol. I am not saying it is bad, it is just not my thing.


Then don't engage in PvP, and if you don't want PvP brought to you, take steps to avoid it. The sandbox nature of this game means that you're free to play however you wish but other players are not restricted from playing however they wish, even if other players are unwillingly involved.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-05-12 07:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Yang Aurilen
Mali Talvanen wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Mali Talvanen wrote:
"x" wrote:


Stay away from WoW, game died at the end of the Wrath expansion. Peak was Burning Crusade. That game will soon be Hello Kitty Online for the next expansion. (After Draenor.) That seems to be the trend.

Since I quit what I had been playing for several years I had been looking for a game with a good economy/trading, crafting/building as well. Actually how i found eve was that it had always popped up in all the searches as a best crafting system game. I really like economy and science in here and that it actually is very realistic and not cartoony like in other games. marketplace is practically like a rl marketplace. Pvp is a problem for me though.

What exactly is your problem with EVE PVP? If you are undocking your Rhea with 100 plexes in cargo on Jita 4-4 expect to lose it before you can even give it a command to align/warp. Otherwise you can have people teach you some basic pvp and EVE skills to keep you from losing your stuff.
EDIT:
Accursed quote function breaking.X

The problem with pvp is that i do not like it and do not want to do it lol. I am not saying it is bad, it is just not my thing.

Unfortunately for you avoiding PVP in EVE is like trying not to breath oxygen in real life. Whether you like it or not intentionally or unintentionally you are engaging in PVP. Someone ganks you and you lost your ship? PVP. Someone ganks you and you jam them so you survive? PVP. Selling stuff on the market at a lower price than the next guy? (Market) PVP. Mining some asteroids with someone else on the belt? PVP. Someone trashtalking you in local? (chat) PVP.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-05-12 07:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Darin Vanar
Mali Talvanen wrote:

Since I quit what I had been playing for several years I had been looking for a game with a good economy/trading, crafting/building as well. Actually how i found eve was that it had always popped up in all the searches as a best crafting system game. I really like economy and science in here and that it actually is very realistic and not cartoony like in other games. marketplace is practically like a rl marketplace. Pvp is a problem for me though.


I get where you are coming from, but the thing is, you don't have to engage in PvP if you don't want to. There are so many professions in EvE for making money, that don't revolve around PvP, no matter what others tell you, you can definitely play EvE without blowing up space ships.

I started out the same as you (disliking how pvp centric it seemed), and there is a lot you can do in the game if you just like the economy of it and the crafting part of it, which is actually really complex. You can make a good living in highsec, and there are a lot of players that do just that. There is also planetary industry you can do, you can even mine, lots of goods to supply that players who PvP need in order to operate without doing these tasks.

There are also explorations missions you can do, which a lot of players do for endgame in EvE. Invention, you name it!

You can make your own path, but be prepared to do a lot of reading, because it took me about a month to just get the basics down.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#45 - 2014-05-12 07:15:42 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:
Not sure I understand that part. I mean those private servers are not illegal, they are all approved by the company creators.

In most cases with mmo's, no they are not. Only a few that I can think of, such as for Ryzom, which went open source and allows player servers to run. Unless the company that made the mmo offers a download of the server code or executable from their website, chances are that they are illegal. After the song and dance of player server "we doing nothing wrong" is exhausted, it's up to the mmo company to decide to legally pursue a criminal case against them or not. Of course that costs money, which is why some don't, and even more of a problem for smaller indie developers just trying to survive. But if they offer the server code from the developers site (the one that made the game), and provide you with the EULA for it, then that's fine. But very few actually do that, almost none.

And it's not just companies being misers about it, but they themselves often are under license from third party vendors such as for art assets (e.g. Speed Tree is common) and various code snippets provided and licensed to them by vendors in so that they can't just give servers away or even release clients for use outside of their intended use. There is just too much legal entanglement for such companies to do that in any way, and most now use such third party vendors for art and code additions.

Oh yes, I've heard such claims by them "oh we are legal", but no, they are not.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Josef Djugashvilis
#46 - 2014-05-12 07:15:55 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:
Private server doesn't mean it is a solo server. I can play with friends or with people who want the same stuff from the game as myself.
Besides those 2 reasons I mentioned, I would also like to have 'a fresh start'. Meaning clean world with just BP and rookie ships. Atm I am always having a feeling about eve, like i joined when the party is already over. Even in the economy part anywhere you go, everything is already claimed, divided, owned by someone. Market is overflooded. Guess I have just missed my time in this game.


Best description I have ever read that makes Eve Online 'real'

Well done.

This is not a signature.
Mali Talvanen
#47 - 2014-05-12 07:21:17 UTC
Andski wrote:
Running private servers is not allowed under the EULA (specifically the restriction against creating derivative works of the software or reverse engineering it), and it's more explicitly prohibits in the TOS, "You may not create, provide or use any server emulator or other site where EVE Online may be played. You may not post or distribute emulators, software tools or utilities related to EVE Online without the express written permission of CCP."

Also, because the EULA restricts your right to modify the client, a consequence of that is that you cannot connect to a private server.

Why would you want to play on a private server anyway? Unlike many other games that are played on such servers, EVE requires a lot more interaction between players in order to function (i.e. the market)

No one said anything about running or using illegal servers. My question was if CCP does provide that option for "official' servers and for "paying subscribers". All the other games I mentioned all use "officially'" allowed servers. Nothing about modifying client or anything like that.
Re your other question, yes market on the private server would be restricted or non existent if it is a solo game, but I would still prefer that comparing to what I see now. For someone new like myself it is restricted anyway unless I want to invest some rl money into that, which I have no intention of doing. Atm at least. I actually was making money on the market all that month I had been playing, but still it is not what I am quite looking for.
Mali Talvanen
#48 - 2014-05-12 07:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Mali Talvanen wrote:



The problem with pvp is that i do not like it and do not want to do it lol. I am not saying it is bad, it is just not my thing.

Unfortunately for you avoiding PVP in EVE is like trying not to breath oxygen in real life. Whether you like it or not intentionally or unintentionally you are engaging in PVP. Someone ganks you and you lost your ship? PVP. Someone ganks you and you jam them so you survive? PVP. Selling stuff on the market at a lower price than the next guy? (Market) PVP. Mining some asteroids with someone else on the belt? PVP. Someone trashtalking you in local? (chat) PVP.

Well I heard that argument many times already, and then let's define what pvp means actually. When I am saying pvp I mean combat pvp only and anything to do with combat. Market competition is ok, same goes for mining. And when most people refer to ovo they do actually mean combat pvp I believe.
Mali Talvanen
#49 - 2014-05-12 07:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Darin Vanar wrote:


I get where you are coming from, but the thing is, you don't have to engage in PvP if you don't want to. There are so many professions in EvE for making money, that don't revolve around PvP, no matter what others tell you, you can definitely play EvE without blowing up space ships.

I started out the same as you (disliking how pvp centric it seemed), and there is a lot you can do in the game if you just like the economy of it and the crafting part of it, which is actually really complex. You can make a good living in highsec, and there are a lot of players that do just that. There is also planetary industry you can do, you can even mine, lots of goods to supply that players who PvP need in order to operate without doing these tasks.

There are also explorations missions you can do, which a lot of players do for endgame in EvE. Invention, you name it!

You can make your own path, but be prepared to do a lot of reading, because it took me about a month to just get the basics down.

Well, thank you for that post. Yes those are exactly the things I had been doing on Tranquility, except for PI. Actually two things i wanted to do were PI and setting up a POS. PI I am practicing now on Sisi as I can't quite figure it out atm, so I am testing it there. POS had numerous problems besides being quite expensive, so I postponed it until summer changes will come out as I understand economy would probably change. But PI is something that I love doing and once I will clearly understand how it works I will probably try it on TQ. Though when I had been trying to find a moon, all had already been owned by someone, same with wh btw.
Mali Talvanen
#50 - 2014-05-12 07:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Webvan wrote:

In most cases with mmo's, no they are not. Only a few that I can think of, such as for Ryzom, which went open source and allows player servers to run. Unless the company that made the mmo offers a download of the server code or executable from their website, chances are that they are illegal. After the song and dance of player server "we doing nothing wrong" is exhausted, it's up to the mmo company to decide to legally pursue a criminal case against them or not. Of course that costs money, which is why some don't, and even more of a problem for smaller indie developers just trying to survive. But if they offer the server code from the developers site (the one that made the game), and provide you with the EULA for it, then that's fine. But very few actually do that, almost none.

And it's not just companies being misers about it, but they themselves often are under license from third party vendors such as for art assets (e.g. Speed Tree is common) and various code snippets provided and licensed to them by vendors in so that they can't just give servers away or even release clients for use outside of their intended use. There is just too much legal entanglement for such companies to do that in any way, and most now use such third party vendors for art and code additions.

Oh yes, I've heard such claims by them "oh we are legal", but no, they are not.

Well I am not much on that stuff as I have already said, but all the servers I have seen are official servers on steam provided by official server hosts as I understand with permission from creators. At least those were that I meant in my original question. I would personally never get involved with anything that is not legal or officially allowed.
Mali Talvanen
#51 - 2014-05-12 07:37:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Mali Talvanen wrote:
Private server doesn't mean it is a solo server. I can play with friends or with people who want the same stuff from the game as myself.
Besides those 2 reasons I mentioned, I would also like to have 'a fresh start'. Meaning clean world with just BP and rookie ships. Atm I am always having a feeling about eve, like i joined when the party is already over. Even in the economy part anywhere you go, everything is already claimed, divided, owned by someone. Market is overflooded. Guess I have just missed my time in this game.


Best description I have ever read that makes Eve Online 'real'

Well done.

Thank you. Nice to know that someone shares your views:-)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-05-12 07:37:41 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:
No one said anything about running or using illegal servers. My question was if CCP does provide that option for "official' servers and for "paying subscribers". All the other games I mentioned all use "officially'" allowed servers. Nothing about modifying client or anything like that.
Re your other question, yes market on the private server would be restricted or non existent if it is a solo game, but I would still prefer that comparing to what I see now. For someone new like myself it is restricted anyway unless I want to invest some rl money into that, which I have no intention of doing. Atm at least. I actually was making money on the market all that month I had been playing, but still it is not what I am quite looking for.


CCP runs one live server, and that's Tranquility. If you want to play solo and not be bothered by anybody, go on the test server and have a blast.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mali Talvanen
#53 - 2014-05-12 07:50:28 UTC
Andski wrote:
Mali Talvanen wrote:
No one said anything about running or using illegal servers. My question was if CCP does provide that option for "official' servers and for "paying subscribers". All the other games I mentioned all use "officially'" allowed servers. Nothing about modifying client or anything like that.
Re your other question, yes market on the private server would be restricted or non existent if it is a solo game, but I would still prefer that comparing to what I see now. For someone new like myself it is restricted anyway unless I want to invest some rl money into that, which I have no intention of doing. Atm at least. I actually was making money on the market all that month I had been playing, but still it is not what I am quite looking for.


CCP runs one live server, and that's Tranquility. If you want to play solo and not be bothered by anybody, go on the test server and have a blast.

LOL, that is exactly what i am doing now
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-05-12 07:56:53 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:

Well, thank you for that post. Yes those are exactly the things I had been doing on Tranquility, except for PI. Actually two things i wanted to do were PI and setting up a POS. PI I am practicing now on Sisi as I can't quite figure it out atm, so I am testing it there. POS had numerous problems besides being quite expensive, so I postponed it until summer changes will come out as I understand economy would probably change. But PI is something that I love doing and once I will clearly understand how it works I will probably try it on TQ. Though when I had been trying to find a moon, all had already been owned by someone, same with wh btw.


Oh you will want to stay away from the POS for a while, even for a small POS, the cost of fueling it is about 100m per month, and that is usually too much to have to shoulder when you start out.

There are a lot of moons in highsec, maybe try some different systems if you are committed to a POS. Systems with lots of planets, usually have lots of moons. Do you have standings to anchor a POS? You need some, I don't recall the exact numbers but that will be going away June 3rd (the standings part). You will be able to anchor in systems higher than 0.7 as well, even 1.0, with some restrictions. So I don't recommend grinding faction standings right now for anchoring a POS.

You are brave if you are already venturing in worm holes! I don't have much experience with those, sorry to say. :(

There is a good PI tutorial if you search for 'planetary interaction'. There are actually a few guides linked at the bottom, including a video tutorial and a CCP created one. (Question mark symbol on your nav bar, on the right, type that in the search bar.)

It took me a few days to sort out the raw mineral output of planets and what they produce into, and then the higher industry facility tiers, but that can be fun to figure out as well. Also some planets are better for things than others (resources present, distance of said resources, and quality of deposits), and some planets are rarer than others. Plasma planets are harder to find.

But for just operating as an Industrialist or Researcher, highsec is your best bet when you are learning. New players in worm holes! I applaud your bravery. :)
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#55 - 2014-05-12 08:03:56 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:

Well I am not much on that stuff as I have already said, but all the servers I have seen are official servers on steam provided by official server hosts as I understand with permission from creators. At least those were that I meant in my original question. I would personally never get involved with anything that is not legal or officially allowed.

Yeah but you are being vague about that. I listed one that does, can list a couple more. Unless you are talking about non-mmo games (they call about everything an "mmo" these days when most are not) that's another subject. But typically no, mmo's don't often do that, in fact very very rarely. And what I mentioned as to why is actually often a leading factor, being they themselves bound to license agreements, not all their code is their own and the vendors can sometimes get a cut from revenue for the life of the game. For typical mmo architecture, if you give the server out, you are essentially giving away the game for free. Some game some game some game, but pretty much not. So no, for CCP to do that, that would be pretty bad, to just give away all their work for free essentially. The western world just doesn't function like that. And even for like Ryzom, you just don't get everything you need to drop down a server and client, they actually need to develop their own content for the most part.
If it's too good to be true, it's probably not true.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Mali Talvanen
#56 - 2014-05-12 08:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Darin Vanar wrote:


Oh you will want to stay away from the POS for a while, even for a small POS, the cost of fueling it is about 100m per month, and that is usually too much to have to shoulder when you start out.

There are a lot of moons in highsec, maybe try some different systems if you are committed to a POS. Systems with lots of planets, usually have lots of moons. Do you have standings to anchor a POS? You need some, I don't recall the exact numbers but that will be going away June 3rd (the standings part). You will be able to anchor in systems higher than 0.7 as well, even 1.0, with some restrictions. So I don't recommend grinding faction standings right now for anchoring a POS.

You are brave if you are already venturing in worm holes! I don't have much experience with those, sorry to say. :(

There is a good PI tutorial if you search for 'planetary interaction'. There are actually a few guides linked at the bottom, including a video tutorial and a CCP created one. (Question mark symbol on your nav bar, on the right, type that in the search bar.)

It took me a few days to sort out the raw mineral output of planets and what they produce into, and then the higher industry facility tiers, but that can be fun to figure out as well. Also some planets are better for things than others (resources present, distance of said resources, and quality of deposits), and some planets are rarer than others. Plasma planets are harder to find.

But for just operating as an Industrialist or Researcher, highsec is your best bet when you are learning. New players in worm holes! I applaud your bravery. :)


Well, I am staying away from POS atm, as I understand summer changes will change the whole situation around the POS, so I am waiting. At SISI now I am making fuel as an experiment to see exactly what it takes. Standings are not a problem, if I need a standing I will get it same as for jump clones from the companies that provide that service. And yes if it will be changed that it wouldn't be needed. But on the other hand it would create even more competition. Many moons would be added, but many more people would be able to claim them. Meaning.... more combat pvp :-)).

PI I did find some very good tutorials and set up everything. The problem for me there is to organize it to work smoothly, which i can't atm. Every item is either short or overflooded, so i am working on that now.

Well i had been in wh and everywhere else, as I always want to try everything. The only problem is i came out of all those place dead lol.
Mali Talvanen
#57 - 2014-05-12 08:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Webvan wrote:

Yeah but you are being vague about that. I listed one that does, can list a couple more. Unless you are talking about non-mmo games (they call about everything an "mmo" these days when most are not) that's another subject. But typically no, mmo's don't often do that, in fact very very rarely. And what I mentioned as to why is actually often a leading factor, being they themselves bound to license agreements, not all their code is their own and the vendors can sometimes get a cut from revenue for the life of the game. For typical mmo architecture, if you give the server out, you are essentially giving away the game for free. Some game some game some game, but pretty much not. So no, for CCP to do that, that would be pretty bad, to just give away all their work for free essentially. The western world just doesn't function like that. And even for like Ryzom, you just don't get everything you need to drop down a server and client, they actually need to develop their own content for the most part.
If it's too good to be true, it's probably not true.


Well idk. What I am vague about. I said from the start those servers are offered on Steam, which is official company that sells all the games officially, Eve included. I absolutely not much on stuff like codes, etc. What i see there official companies and also big official servers providers, who I believe would not engage in any illegal stuff. Games i played like that were Rust and DayZ, don't know if they are MMO or not, i am not much on that either. Well, just make it clear, anything I am asking would be only about official, legal, etc.
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-05-12 08:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mali Talvanen wrote:
Darin Vanar wrote:

Oh you will want to stay away from the POS for a while, even for a small POS, the cost of fueling it is about 100m per month, and that is usually too much to have to shoulder when you start out.

There are a lot of moons in highsec, maybe try some different systems if you are committed to a POS. Systems with lots of planets, usually have lots of moons. Do you have standings to anchor a POS? You need some, I don't recall the exact numbers but that will be going away June 3rd (the standings part). You will be able to anchor in systems higher than 0.7 as well, even 1.0, with some restrictions. So I don't recommend grinding faction standings right now for anchoring a POS.

You are brave if you are already venturing in worm holes! I don't have much experience with those, sorry to say. :(

There is a good PI tutorial if you search for 'planetary interaction'. There are actually a few guides linked at the bottom, including a video tutorial and a CCP created one. (Question mark symbol on your nav bar, on the right, type that in the search bar.)

It took me a few days to sort out the raw mineral output of planets and what they produce into, and then the higher industry facility tiers, but that can be fun to figure out as well. Also some planets are better for things than others (resources present, distance of said resources, and quality of deposits), and some planets are rarer than others. Plasma planets are harder to find.

But for just operating as an Industrialist or Researcher, highsec is your best bet when you are learning. New players in worm holes! I applaud your bravery. :)


Well, I am staying away from POS atm, as I understand summer changes will change the whole situation around the POS, so I am waiting. At SISI now I am making fuel as an experiment to see exactly what it takes. Standings are not a problem, if I need a standing I will get it same as for jump clones from the companies that provide that service. And yes if it will be changed that it wouldn't be needed. But on the other hand it would create even more competition. Many moons would be added, but many more people would be able to claim them. Meaning.... more combat pvp :-)).

PI I did find some very good tutorials and set up everything. The problem for me there is to organize it to work smoothly, which i can't atm. Every item is either short or overflooded, so i am working on that now.

Well i had been in wh and everywhere else, as I always want to try everything. The only problem is i came out of all those place dead lol.


Yes, I expect that at the start of the new expansions, a lot of new POSes will go up, but after people realize the costs and the risks involved in running one, I expect a lot of them will be taken down. It will reach an equilibrium at some point.

Also, if you get wardec-ed (a declaration of war from another corporation), you have 24 hours before that goes into effect. Some people use this time to pack up their POS and anchor it later after the war is ended. Otherwise, attacking your POS is a criminal act (in highsec). It takes 2mil to declare a war against another corp. Yes, it's all part of the risk and hassle of owning one. I think you should stick to stations for now, until you get a good idea how to work around those first. It helps you focus on the more important things, like awareness and properly fitting your ships.

Hehe, you can try again to venture in those places with a ship that can use a cloaking device, but I recommend reading up on properly using those because they are considerably more expensive to replace than your usual stuff. lol
Mali Talvanen
#59 - 2014-05-12 08:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Darin Vanar wrote:



Hehe, you can try again to venture in those places with a ship that can use a cloaking device, but I recommend reading up on properly using those because they are considerably more expensive to replace than your usual stuff. lol


Guristas get me everytime lol. Cloaked or uncloaked-)) Been there numerous times already
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#60 - 2014-05-12 08:32:45 UTC
Mali Talvanen wrote:

Well I heard that argument many times already, and then let's define what pvp means actually. When I am saying pvp I mean combat pvp only and anything to do with combat. Market competition is ok, same goes for mining. And when most people refer to ovo they do actually mean combat pvp I believe.


What will you build if you don't like combat? Because like 99% of the stuff you can build in EVE is about combat. And why would you build it if no one is interested in using it on your private server?

There are parts of EVE that simply would not exist on a private server without the massive population. Like the need to build weapons because of the need to conquer resources to build more weapons. The market would not exist at all.

Industry would be stripped of all meaning and become an extremely boring minigame. Even if you don't actively engage in combat, the actions of those who do are the lifeblood of the industrialist.