Crime & Punishment

I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong but don't worry about it, it happens to everyone. No one will think less of you for it. It's better than divorcing your posts from reality altogether.


That's the problem, though and ultimately why I'm taking part in this conversation. As far as the customer was concerned, there was no doubt what he was getting simply because Aleks never rejected his request. This isn't helped by the fact Aleks confirmed Gevlon's request by saying he'd prefer to use EAFs. Had I been in Gevlon's shoes, I'd find myself in a similar predicament as he is in now. This isn't exactly reassuring to a potential customer.

Confirming that EAFs aren't ECM boats and suggesting you will use them means you reject the use of ECM outright.

It bears repeating: When you realise you're wrong, you're better off admitting your mistakes than divorcing your posts from reality.

Maybe we should just keep this discussion to G's blog and the comments on it.


TLDR for potential employers. Goblin is not happy with our performance. He believes we scammed him. Some readers agree with him, some agree with Noir.

There is a saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Well you can check out our Hundreds of contracts that ended with no squeaks. Or you can follow This blog and see for yourself just how squeaky this conspiracy theorist can be.

Weighing the two sides after more of the debate has been had, I've come to the conclusion that neither side is really faultless here. It may not be a popular conclusion to have but both sides are speaking past each other. Both simply assumed the other side knew what they meant and in some cases both sides should have known better.

Goblin DID say "can you ECM Goon ships." Alek replied by suggesting EWAR frigs but then turned from the conversation about that to a pay per kill discussion. Goblin failed to insist on the topic and Alek failed to give a definitive "no" to the suggestion. They both spoke too vaguely and from that, misunderstandings arose. When a client comes to a merc, they need to detail exactly what they want done, how they want it done and all parameters. Goblin failed to do that. Likewise as a merc, you need to ask every little detail possible about the contract so that both sides understand what is to be expected. Alek failed to do that. And to wrap it up (at least how I always did it) is you wrote up a "contract mail" with all of these details together and both sides agree to those specific terms. Only then do you go to work.

No one can be perfect. Sometimes the client can't think of all of the details and possibilities of the contract. Sometimes the merc will fail to grasp all aspects of what the client once. By both sides of the relationship trying their best to ensure that they communicate, misunderstandings can be minimized. Unfortunately this was a case where both sides failed to do what they were suppose to do in their respective cases, and the mass backlash (both for and against) is the result.

Of course Goblin should have insisted on his specifications and not agreed to anything until he knew what he was buying. If I go into a store and just nod and take whatever is handed to me and buy it after only a vague conversation with the store keeper, i'm at fault. At the same time Alek should have known that taking a wardec to fight whoever was attacking the GSF would bother Goblin. Both sides should have simply known better.

Now the question remains, where do we go from here? Goblin cannot afford to waste time and resources fighting Noir if his goal is to go after the CFC. It isn't in his interest to waste resources over this sort of thing. At the same time, regardless of how one may feel about Goblin, Noir has a reputation to uphold. Even if your client isn't completely specific with their desires, there's a level of interest that is expected and should be shown from a mercenary group such as Noir. I think both sides need to seek terms with one another as to solve this problem or it will persist. Neither side has anything to gain from making the other side unhappy. Nor does it help with either side's goals. Both sides need to realize their fault and move forward. Obviously the next time they negotiate a contract (if they ever do again) they'll both need to be much more aware of the other's needs and goals and what parameters need to exist.

I'm sincerely open to speak with both parties privately either 1 on 1 or all together. I think the initial situation was handled poorly. There's no need to have it echo like this.


For more reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_resolution

So get your peons and lemmings to run ecm next year and see how useless it is you big dummy.

I like how all of Gevlon's excuses now boil down to "Noir. had a secret contract from Goons to accept any contract I gave them so I could scam them"

What it REALLY boils down to is you never want to admit when you're wrong. Even at the very basic idea of your ECM fleet; it just doesn't work. Anyone with knowledge of suicide gank mechanics knows it doesnt work. That's why I said we'd prefer to do it our own way and agreed to your pay per kill counter offer.

But you don't want to accept that anyone knows something you don't, so instead of going "yeah I didn't think about the fact they'd already be done shooting when the jams activate" you stand by your ignorance of how the game works and blame everyone else for undermining your genius plan.

Obviously any mistakes you made negotiating the contract or in handling simple conversation with the mercs in your employ are inconsequential, because secretly Goons hired us to be hired by you so you could... not pay us anything after we do the work? I'm not clear on my end of the plan, sorry.

If your ECM fleet was such a great concept, why didn't Darwin's Lemmings which you were still secretly directly running and flying with use it? Can you point to any example in your EVE or personal life when you took responsibility for your own actions and outcomes? By crap posting against Seraph are you determined to systematically alienate everyone remotely sympathetic to you? Do you understand you can't scam someone when they haven't given you any money or services?

I can accept responsibility for the "ECM - kill" misunderstanding. But it's a side issue that could have been solved on the first day.

The elephant in the room is Noir working for both sides of a conflict and I can't even imagine that being a honest mistake.

That sort of backbiting doesn't further the discussion nor does it do you any credit. Let's focus on the issue.




Ok this is very true. This could have been solved. I think Alek made a mistake in the manner in which he communicated as much as you. But I don't think Alek really meant to scam anyone out of anything. We also don't actually have proof that the GSF hired him. As far as we know "someone" did. In all likely cases it is GSF via alt, but we can't be sure.

Turning into another Marmite thread, but hey, bad adviticement is better than none.

Im stunned its the same discussion going on still.

EDIT:

Awesome podcast btw +1