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Revert The Jumps Column
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DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#1 - 2014-05-11 19:22:48 UTC
TL;DR - Is Jumps Column broken or working as intended? Revert how the mechanic for the jumps column based on player's route settings.

A couple months ago, the jumps column worked great. Now it does not. I made a thread to that effect. I used the word bug in the title of the thread and stated the jumps column is broken. MailDeadDrop reply states the jumps column is not broken; an ISD member stepped in to lock the thread stating posting about bugs/exploits is not allowed.
Rule 15 wrote:
Bugs and exploits should be reported through the proper channels. Bugs should be brought to the attention of CCP by filing a bug report for our Quality Assurance department. More information on filing bug reports can be found here. Discussions about unverified issues in game can cause unnecessary panic in the community. When there is an issue that the EVE Online community needs to be aware of, it will be communicated via an official statement from CCP after thorough investigation.
Where does CCP communicate those official statements? Some patch notes contain statements about fixed exploits and bugs, but patch notes have no search function.

I am still not even sure this is even a bug. Is the jumps column broken? Or was the jumps column always "broken" until a couple months ago? The original thread I started for this possibly broken feature has not been verified or replied to, except to say I can not talk about it.

A recent patch (Rubicon 2.1.1 or Rubicon 3.1) changed the mechanics for jumps column distance calculations. A statement in patch notes or response by ISD to that effect seems appropriate. Might want to give your ISD some refresher training for things we think got broken after a patch.

Another problem is all the broken things/bugs/exploits/whatever you want to call them. Have you considered advertising to players those things you are aware of? I get the feeling communicating to players or even searching the forums for issues you know about would prevent a lot of reports of bugs/exploits/etc.

It makes no sense so far why this was changed or broken accidentally. CCP's changes for basic navigation mechanic is either broken or was purposely changed. Why not at least say "we at CCP" accidentally broke this or changed it on purpose?; and post those possible bug/exploit threads in a separate Possible Bugs/Exploits section of the Eve-O forums.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2014-05-11 19:27:01 UTC
I would like to help, but I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#3 - 2014-05-11 19:43:59 UTC
I apologize for my poor explanation. Here is a link to the original thread. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4517889#post4517889
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2014-05-11 22:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
no, this is working as it always has (IIRC).


If you're (say) seven jumps from (somewhere) through lowsec, but say 15 if you stick to hisec AND choose "prefer safer", the column will state the jumps based on that safer route (i.e. "15"). Furthermore, all jump-based skills (Remote Labs, Mfg Lines, Buy/Sell orders) will use that LONGER route, because pathfinding.

In addition, if you have other filters set (avoid systems where "bad thing" happened in the last hour") AND that system is the chokepoint (e.g. Kisogo -> Urlen -> Perimeter -> Jita, and "bad thing" happened in Urlen), you will get either -1 or 20,000 something because there is no route (Kisogo is dead-end, and you're telling AP to avoid Urlen ... and it can't).


However, you're breaking forum rules again, and are liable to get (temporarily forum) banned for discussing an already answered / moderated topic.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#5 - 2014-05-12 05:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: DetKhord Saisio
I have prefer safer on and that is not how it reacts. And actually, it was not answered. I had to guess in the other thread that I thought it was a broken feature. I have yet to receive an in-game reply as to the status of the jumps column by someone from CCP, thus this thread.

I figured the range mechanic had been changed, since the jumps range to these systems (where I have had research agents for years) has never changed for as long as I have played eve, but a couple months ago the 'prefer safer' jumps range became the distance as if 'prefer shorter' route setting had been selected.

At the end of the day, this is only a visual display issue since the route (prefer safer) sends you on a safe route, not shorter. The jumps column just displays the incorrect distance info. I know this, because setting destination to the system shows the correct route in highsec. At the same time, the jumps column (noted in original thread) shows incorrect distance/# jumps. Something is displaying the wrong info for the jumps column.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#6 - 2014-05-20 14:57:44 UTC
Any devs going to admit to breaking this? Whether this change was accidental or not, this was working differently prior to 2014.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2014-05-20 16:48:10 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
Any devs going to admit to breaking this? Whether this change was accidental or not, this was working differently prior to 2014.


or maybe you have some other filter in the way (e.g. "avoid where [thing] has happened") that "Prefer Safer" is taking into account that "prefer shorter" ignores.

Best way to figure it out is set the destination, and flip back and forth between the two, and see where your route changes. Presumably then, the system it changes at (or very near there) is the one causing the problem for you.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2014-05-20 16:56:05 UTC
im not understanding ur problem. check ur filter again or go into deep detail of what steps ur taking. all ur filter settings, avoidance lists and what system ur travelling from and where to.

if u have uedama and niarja in ur avoidance list and try to get to jita from outside of caldari space ur autopilot will send u threw low sec, as those are two choke points toward jita.

one thing i did notice recently is my autopilot now sends me through avesbar rather than rens when i go from frarn to adubdan. this started happening a few month back. so it would seem something was changed.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Velicitia
XS Tech
#9 - 2014-05-20 17:13:19 UTC
note too, that (IIRC) if there are multiple ways to a system (e.g. Alilere -> Bourynes -> [Botane|Vylade] -> Dodixie, because Agrallierer is on your avoid list), then the game takes the shorter path (i.e. if it's 0.5 AU to Vylade and 1.5 AU to Botane, you'll go through Vylade).

Or I was just drunk and warped through the wrong gate.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#10 - 2014-05-23 00:25:43 UTC
I have no avoid systems. As far as I know, the mechanic changed recently.

This likely only affects certain highsec players in The Forge with route settings Prefer Safer always on; I believe it changed months ago, but I only recently noticed this is a display-only issue.

There is no adverse affect on route settings (i.e. prefer safer works properly); the jumps column in s&i, contracts and market state incorrect number of jumps to reach systems in region the forge. Therefore, it is a display issue and nothing more than a display issue.

With prefer safer, jumps is calculated incorrectly (for only a couple systems in the forge); with prefer shorter & prefer less secure, jumps is calculated correctly. I have not tested for this display issue in other regions than the forge.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#11 - 2014-05-23 00:41:11 UTC
Here are some screenshots to help you understand.

Avoid List - http://i.imgur.com/LnDmhol.jpg

Route Setting (Prefer Safer) - http://i.imgur.com/7DYGNAB.jpg
Highsec Travel Hent to Friggi 13 Jumps - http://i.imgur.com/ZsmFjQy.jpg

Route Setting (Prefer Shorter) - http://i.imgur.com/B0EElCa.jpg
Lowsec Travel Hent to Friggi 3 Jumps - http://i.imgur.com/B0EElCa.jpg