These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Out of Pod Experience

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has it always been this bad?

Author
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#41 - 2014-05-11 14:00:13 UTC
SCV'Argos wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Uneducated. Maybe that's the problem............

Education is a wrong word in this case. Ignorance is the right term, because even well educated people are often ignorant (but education can help, yes).
Because knowledge is just a collection of words and numbers. Understanding is what really matters. So some "savages" like afghanish people (or whoever else) can be - surprisingly - less ignorant than a "civilized" prestigeous colledge graduate.


Oh sure. The "ordinary" citizans are well educated in most cases.

But sorry, the Boko Haram savages for the most part did not go to school. But they sure can quote the Koran.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#42 - 2014-05-11 14:03:55 UTC
SCV'Argos wrote:


Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

The do seem to jump the gun a lot with news stories, but then the way some things are described is so "careful" it's like reading a joke. It's a dance against lawsuits in the future for mis-reporting.


Bad example. Some local personal events don't matter much for this discussion (we're talking about global social problems, aren't we?). If there is news about something socially or even globally significant - there will be lies in the news about it. Not 100% lies, of course, because the best lie comes interlaced with truth.



This has nothing to do with lying. It has everything to do with the press not jumping to conclusions (even when the conclusion is obvious). They can be sued for "saying the wrong thing" legally.

We are discussing the downgrading of society in all it's forms, not just globally.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2014-05-11 14:05:19 UTC
SCV'Argos wrote:

You may think I'm a paranoic but I see the hand of some "puppet master" manipulating social and political tendenies in most regions along all our known history. Not "ZOG" no, lol, some much more sophisticated people.



I think you have missed the point of this thread. Too grandiose here, and unfocused........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-05-11 16:26:06 UTC
Isn't it Quran? Or is Koran something else?

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2014-05-11 16:28:59 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Isn't it Quran? Or is Koran something else?



Google it yourself.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-05-11 16:47:06 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Isn't it Quran? Or is Koran something else?



Google it yourself.

Dude, why even reply to me if you're just going to act like a little girl about it

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

SCV'Argos
TheMurk
#47 - 2014-05-11 18:54:39 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
SCV'Argos wrote:


Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

The do seem to jump the gun a lot with news stories, but then the way some things are described is so "careful" it's like reading a joke. It's a dance against lawsuits in the future for mis-reporting.


Bad example. Some local personal events don't matter much for this discussion (we're talking about global social problems, aren't we?). If there is news about something socially or even globally significant - there will be lies in the news about it. Not 100% lies, of course, because the best lie comes interlaced with truth.



This has nothing to do with lying. It has everything to do with the press not jumping to conclusions (even when the conclusion is obvious). They can be sued for "saying the wrong thing" legally.

Outright lies are also veery widely used, especially in news about politics, especially about foreign politics.
If newspapers are so afraid of lawsuits as you say then where is the "democracy" and "freedom of opinion and speech".
This world is ill.

And this illness doesn't come from human genes, it's cultural, and it can be cured over time, with decent effort.


Dorian Tormak wrote:
Isn't it Quran? Or is Koran something else?

The same. I assume standard form in English is "Quran" but "Koran" also doesn't look wrong. It's a foreign word from a language with non-latin writing, after all.
SCV'Argos
TheMurk
#48 - 2014-05-11 19:16:41 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
SCV'Argos wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Uneducated. Maybe that's the problem............

Education is a wrong word in this case. Ignorance is the right term, because even well educated people are often ignorant (but education can help, yes).
Because knowledge is just a collection of words and numbers. Understanding is what really matters. So some "savages" like afghanish people (or whoever else) can be - surprisingly - less ignorant than a "civilized" prestigeous colledge graduate.


Oh sure. The "ordinary" citizans are well educated in most cases.

But sorry, the Boko Haram savages for the most part did not go to school. But they sure can quote the Koran.

Quoting something, including Koran, doesn't necessarily mean reading it and understanding it. Some people believe the words of their leaders or authorities instead of learning (and understanding) the teachings by themselves. Obviously it can be said about any major teachings, not only Koran.

p.s. Also, take any teaching, quote from it changing context purposely - and you can put hatred between several nations even if their religions teach the same morals. That's what's happening today in the world - some forces don't want christian and islamic parts of the world to live in peace with each other. "Divide et impera!" (c)
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#49 - 2014-05-11 21:51:35 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Highly Relevant.

Steven Pinker says no and that things have been getting better over the last 100 years. I will agree with his assessment and his belief that at any second it could sweep completely in the opposite direction with littlle to no notice.

Yeah I've seen those numbers, pretty much fudged. They [academia] like to leave out things like Mao's famine, colonialism and such.
Some estimates including the excluded numbers run as high as 260Mil. And that's just Democide, not even counting general famine totals that imo are in part directly and/or indirectly a result of mans inhumanity to man.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#50 - 2014-05-11 22:00:37 UTC
From my own perspective having lived all my life in Latinamerica, it has always been the way it is.

Intelligent people down here can really recognize the scare tactics used by media a mile away or the pseudo-attempts at inciting outrage over things culturally some people in some other country might find intolerable but down here are more of a normal occurrence.

Media down here fails to grasp cultural norms by a wide margin and the scare tactics you can get up from TV, Newspapers and radio fall on the deaf ears of people living in abject poverty or middle class households that need to evade military or civilian roadblocks , city to city roadways ambushes and plain common day thievery, kidnappings and the sheer need to find money to put something on the table.

A lot gets lost in translation, the only thing that remains , from my perspective is a willingness to survive and ignore anything that is deemed negative, it won´t click simply, imagined or overblown scare tactics from media outlets can´t get a hold of people whose only concerns are survival, living the day or simply generating enough wealth to buy food for the week and some booze.

Latinamericans are accustomed to hardships, instability, lack of growth, lack of future and many things that other countries can take for granted, also this is a broad generalization but fits within the gross of our poverty stricken countries, where at old age you need a solid family relation to support you in your final days, unlike other countries where old age is a period of quiet relaxation or a place where , if you invested well you could tap into a retirement fund. For the gross of people down here all you can do at old age is hope one of your kids or family members can help you with something or be lucky enough to be granted a good social security pension.

The scare tactics don´t depress me, to be honest they kinda confuse me in their ineptitude. I know how brutal man can be to fellow man , been mugged, robbed and had guns placed on me with the intent to kill , and have reacted in ways that are survival focused that have enabled me to be here, and my experiences are light compared to other friends. I rely on these experiences to always remind me of my current location in time and space as an internal spiritual gps of sorts. Hence why I always bring them up in one way or another.

I have had family and friends killed, red weddings are true historical facts to us, and a lot of other human rights abuses are our daily bread, or were, thats why I left my country, Panama, despite what the media shows, is really a good country, with flaws like all countries but a very damn good country.

But in the end, having all that shoved upon me daily is kinda ... moot?
"OMG GUY WAS STABBED 70 times and then HAD TONGUE CUT and placed inside his body orifices, THIS CAN HAPPEN TO YOU OMFG" repeated to me daily kinda overkills it, whatever IT is they trying to sell you, which I can only summarize as LIVE IN FEAR BECAUSE OMG YOU CAN´T DO ANYTHING.

Down here all you have left is family, and for many religious values, everything else is just a bonus, fame, money, power, friends, an extra slice of pizza.

Most people I know just drink, go out, play games, even when their streets have military/police roadblocks or have fallen afoul of sheer "bad luck" (to give it a name) . This is my experience, I don´t pretend it to be someone else´s nor pretend for it to be the norm, but it is mine and mine alone.

What else can you do? In all honesty and searching deep inside you, What else can you do? Cower in darkness whining about the unfairness of it all?

Don´t be depressed, just LIVE. I know Nicaraguan ladies here in Panama that work as cleaning staff and they have war time stories worthy of books, yet, they still live, and worry about lack of love, the future of their kids, run of the mill things.

Scare tactics and fear only work when you let them control you. You might think you are not in charge of your life, that you are at the mercy of the elements, of things greater than you, be it divine or man made (your choice), but regardless of that, you are not immune to the dangers of life, no matter how much you plan for it, against it or ignore it. Life is not a movie with a proper beginning, middle act and correct ending with logical sequences in a good plot, life is just a random act of choices, choices that will lead you to paths you can always look back upon, but never ahead.

Know this, digest this, embrace this, and you will evolve and in a sense be free of the constraints of such limited reality.

You don´t even know if you going to be alive tomorrow, why worry? Life is short, enjoy family, friends and loved ones, enjoy their company, their warmth and swap jokes and life experiences with others. Seeing the world and knowing about the world is not something you going to understand by seeing how ""#% up a country is and how many bullets are raining down there , or for that matter in your neighborhood or city.

Dont be a tourist of your life friend.
Life is full of brutality but also full of opportunities
If you want to be afraid of something, be afraid of all the things you never did when you had the chance.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Rammix
TheMurk
#51 - 2014-06-01 03:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Brujo Loco wrote:
From my own perspective having lived all my life in Latinamerica, it has always been the way it is.

Intelligent people down here can really recognize the scare tactics used by media a mile away or the pseudo-attempts at inciting outrage over things culturally some people in some other country might find intolerable but down here are more of a normal occurrence.

Media down here fails to grasp cultural norms by a wide margin and the scare tactics you can get up from TV, Newspapers and radio fall on the deaf ears of people living in abject poverty or middle class households that need to evade military or civilian roadblocks , city to city roadways ambushes and plain common day thievery, kidnappings and the sheer need to find money to put something on the table.

A lot gets lost in translation, the only thing that remains , from my perspective is a willingness to survive and ignore anything that is deemed negative, it won´t click simply, imagined or overblown scare tactics from media outlets can´t get a hold of people whose only concerns are survival, living the day or simply generating enough wealth to buy food for the week and some booze.

Latinamericans are accustomed to hardships, instability, lack of growth, lack of future and many things that other countries can take for granted, also this is a broad generalization but fits within the gross of our poverty stricken countries, where at old age you need a solid family relation to support you in your final days, unlike other countries where old age is a period of quiet relaxation or a place where , if you invested well you could tap into a retirement fund. For the gross of people down here all you can do at old age is hope one of your kids or family members can help you with something or be lucky enough to be granted a good social security pension.

The scare tactics don´t depress me, to be honest they kinda confuse me in their ineptitude. I know how brutal man can be to fellow man , been mugged, robbed and had guns placed on me with the intent to kill , and have reacted in ways that are survival focused that have enabled me to be here, and my experiences are light compared to other friends. I rely on these experiences to always remind me of my current location in time and space as an internal spiritual gps of sorts. Hence why I always bring them up in one way or another.

I have had family and friends killed, red weddings are true historical facts to us, and a lot of other human rights abuses are our daily bread, or were, thats why I left my country, Panama, despite what the media shows, is really a good country, with flaws like all countries but a very damn good country.

But in the end, having all that shoved upon me daily is kinda ... moot?
"OMG GUY WAS STABBED 70 times and then HAD TONGUE CUT and placed inside his body orifices, THIS CAN HAPPEN TO YOU OMFG" repeated to me daily kinda overkills it, whatever IT is they trying to sell you, which I can only summarize as LIVE IN FEAR BECAUSE OMG YOU CAN´T DO ANYTHING.

Down here all you have left is family, and for many religious values, everything else is just a bonus, fame, money, power, friends, an extra slice of pizza.

Most people I know just drink, go out, play games, even when their streets have military/police roadblocks or have fallen afoul of sheer "bad luck" (to give it a name) . This is my experience, I don´t pretend it to be someone else´s nor pretend for it to be the norm, but it is mine and mine alone.

What else can you do? In all honesty and searching deep inside you, What else can you do? Cower in darkness whining about the unfairness of it all?

Don´t be depressed, just LIVE. I know Nicaraguan ladies here in Panama that work as cleaning staff and they have war time stories worthy of books, yet, they still live, and worry about lack of love, the future of their kids, run of the mill things.

Scare tactics and fear only work when you let them control you. You might think you are not in charge of your life, that you are at the mercy of the elements, of things greater than you, be it divine or man made (your choice), but regardless of that, you are not immune to the dangers of life, no matter how much you plan for it, against it or ignore it. Life is not a movie with a proper beginning, middle act and correct ending with logical sequences in a good plot, life is just a random act of choices, choices that will lead you to paths you can always look back upon, but never ahead.


Yes, you're right. But everyone can't be calm and fearless like a "sage". Blink
Winning the fear itself is an ideal principle of living, yet unreacheble for most, at least not in the current state of human culture on Earth.
But I think there is still a way to fight against one of the strongest sources of international fear. I think, globally, fear works because of ignorance of people. Because, when 2 (or more) cultures don't know each other, don't understand each other, someone can tell almost any lies to each of them about the second one, and put fear and hatred between them. I believe that such type of manipulation can be countered by widespread international communication (God save the internet Smile ) of peoples. When people get to know each other, to understand each other, they stop feeling like strangers to each other and it becomes much more difficult to put misundestanding, fear and hatred between them.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#52 - 2014-06-01 07:29:48 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-06-02 09:27:42 UTC
Along with the luxuries that help to end suffering comes a network of information transferring that enables us to see more of the suffering. The suffering was always there.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#54 - 2014-06-02 16:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
I agree with the OP. I watch very little news, but I try to stay informed through reading various online sources on subjects that interest me.

Human nature is the same as it has been from the beginning. We are all self centered individuals at our core. Being self centered isn't evil per say. Our survival instinct and self preservation instinct is good. When does it become evil? When our selfish actions cause harm to others. The root of all evil is selfishness.

I think what Q said is very true, we are a dangerous, savage, child race because a result of our self centered nature is that we hurt others.

Do I think things are getting worse? Yes, I do, and I think it will only continue to do so.

#1 There are more of us. You have over 7 billion self centered individuals all living on this small planet all having to share everything. 2000 years ago there were only around 250 million people on the entire planet. So statistically speaking there are going to be more people hurting others on a daily basis. More population means more problems.

#2 Morality is failing. Ultimately, when people don't believe they will be held accountable for their actions, they will simply do whatever they want.

#3 Divisive, competing world views will continue to fight it out. That might be politics, religion (or the lack there of), education, economics, climate change etc.

An ideological utopia will never be possible because at our core we are individuals and we all have an opinion. Tyrannical ideologies that try to force everyone into a specific mold to obtain the utopia will always be doomed to failure. People will never be happy as long as someone is telling them what to do. Big government always leads to oppression and rebellion.

I could go on.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-06-02 18:56:13 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
Morality is failing. Ultimately, when people don't believe they will be held accountable for their actions, they will simply do whatever they want.
[-snip-]
People will never be happy as long as someone is telling them what to do. Big government always leads to oppression and rebellion.
This is very true, and might be the biggest reason every great civilization eventually topples itself. A civilization can only survive the test of time when in a state of equilibrium, and great civilizations making great strides are never in a state of equilibrium. Nobody can balance rules with freedom, everybody has their own idea of what they should be allowed to do. In the end, the most stable societies are the repressed ones, and especially when they don't know about un-repressed societies beyond theirs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#56 - 2014-06-04 02:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
It's probably worse than we can keep track of, really. Cynical ignorant bad will and greed, nothing new about that. But there's more concentrated capacity to cause harm than ever before. Luckily we still have thinking people doing art, philosophy, spirituality, music, literature, all kinds of other enlightened things. Too many to keep track of as well, really. Go humans!
Lido Seahawk
We Broke The Game
Already Replaced.
#57 - 2014-06-04 03:19:10 UTC
Doreen Kaundur wrote:

My question is: has it always been this way? Or is it that obtaining this information has gotten easier thus giving the impression that it's getting worse?



Actually, its better than it ever was. Seriously!

May I have your stuff?

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-06-04 03:59:56 UTC
Lido Seahawk wrote:
Actually, its better than it ever was. Seriously!
So very, painfully true. What hurts me most about the sadness and grief of today is the thought that this is the best our species has ever been.


On the upside, it's getting better all the time and there's no stopping it! Lol

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#59 - 2014-06-05 14:35:00 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
From my own perspective having lived all my life in Latinamerica, it has always been the way it is.

Intelligent people down here can really recognize the scare tactics used by media a mile away or the pseudo-attempts at inciting outrage over things culturally some people in some other country might find intolerable but down here are more of a normal occurrence.

Media down here fails to grasp cultural norms by a wide margin and the scare tactics you can get up from TV, Newspapers and radio fall on the deaf ears of people living in abject poverty or middle class households that need to evade military or civilian roadblocks , city to city roadways ambushes and plain common day thievery, kidnappings and the sheer need to find money to put something on the table.

A lot gets lost in translation, the only thing that remains , from my perspective is a willingness to survive and ignore anything that is deemed negative, it won´t click simply, imagined or overblown scare tactics from media outlets can´t get a hold of people whose only concerns are survival, living the day or simply generating enough wealth to buy food for the week and some booze.

Latinamericans are accustomed to hardships, instability, lack of growth, lack of future and many things that other countries can take for granted, also this is a broad generalization but fits within the gross of our poverty stricken countries, where at old age you need a solid family relation to support you in your final days, unlike other countries where old age is a period of quiet relaxation or a place where , if you invested well you could tap into a retirement fund. For the gross of people down here all you can do at old age is hope one of your kids or family members can help you with something or be lucky enough to be granted a good social security pension.

The scare tactics don´t depress me, to be honest they kinda confuse me in their ineptitude. I know how brutal man can be to fellow man , been mugged, robbed and had guns placed on me with the intent to kill , and have reacted in ways that are survival focused that have enabled me to be here, and my experiences are light compared to other friends. I rely on these experiences to always remind me of my current location in time and space as an internal spiritual gps of sorts. Hence why I always bring them up in one way or another.

I have had family and friends killed, red weddings are true historical facts to us, and a lot of other human rights abuses are our daily bread, or were, thats why I left my country, Panama, despite what the media shows, is really a good country, with flaws like all countries but a very damn good country.

But in the end, having all that shoved upon me daily is kinda ... moot?
"OMG GUY WAS STABBED 70 times and then HAD TONGUE CUT and placed inside his body orifices, THIS CAN HAPPEN TO YOU OMFG" repeated to me daily kinda overkills it, whatever IT is they trying to sell you, which I can only summarize as LIVE IN FEAR BECAUSE OMG YOU CAN´T DO ANYTHING.

Down here all you have left is family, and for many religious values, everything else is just a bonus, fame, money, power, friends, an extra slice of pizza.

Most people I know just drink, go out, play games, even when their streets have military/police roadblocks or have fallen afoul of sheer "bad luck" (to give it a name) . This is my experience, I don´t pretend it to be someone else´s nor pretend for it to be the norm, but it is mine and mine alone.

What else can you do? In all honesty and searching deep inside you, What else can you do? Cower in darkness whining about the unfairness of it all?

Don´t be depressed, just LIVE. I know Nicaraguan ladies here in Panama that work as cleaning staff and they have war time stories worthy of books, yet, they still live, and worry about lack of love, the future of their kids, run of the mill things.

Scare tactics and fear only work when you let them control you. You might think you are not in charge of your life, that you are at the mercy of the elements, of things greater than you, be it divine or man made (your choice), but regardless of that, you are not immune to the dangers of life, no matter how much you plan for it, against it or ignore it. Life is not a movie with a proper beginning, middle act and correct ending with logical sequences in a good plot, life is just a random act of choices, choices that will lead you to paths you can always look back upon, but never ahead.

Know this, digest this, embrace this, and you will evolve and in a sense be free of the constraints of such limited reality.

You don´t even know if you going to be alive tomorrow, why worry? Life is short, enjoy family, friends and loved ones, enjoy their company, their warmth and swap jokes and life experiences with others. Seeing the world and knowing about the world is not something you going to understand by seeing how ""#% up a country is and how many bullets are raining down there , or for that matter in your neighborhood or city.

Dont be a tourist of your life friend.
Life is full of brutality but also full of opportunities
If you want to be afraid of something, be afraid of all the things you never did when you had the chance.

That's a good post Brujo. Thank you
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#60 - 2014-06-05 16:49:29 UTC
Welp, at least America has become a Redneck Paradise

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882