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CCP, release subscription number.

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Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2014-05-10 18:45:33 UTC
Based on my own gaming history...

EverQuest by Sony Online used to have each and every server have a visible count based upon the number of players on that server at the moment. Sony used to be proud of their increasing subscription number and would splash that ever increasing number whenever given the chance. When Sony began to push their expansions to cater more towards the raiding guilds while the other "lesser" guilds not with the best gear available and still cutting their teeth, much less the casual players in general, began to complain about Norrath becoming lopsided, Sony did not listen.

So people began leaving and the numbers showed a drop.

Sony reacted by having a gathering of well-known players from their previously held fan fests flown out to California (if I remember) to discuss what can be done to stop the hemorrhaging. Afterwards, Sony listened, for a spell...

But then Sony decided they knew what was best and proceeded on their original path. By this time, they were diversifying themselves into other pursuits - EverQuest II and early beta of Planet Side, while their main flag ship game was being "dumbed down" to appeal to greater masses that never arrived. And instead of showing numbers per server, it was changed to "Active".

More players were leaving by droves while Sony tried their damnedest to get everyone to be a full life raider. To help that cause, they condensed servers together to promote more gaming together, still without visible numbers.

Now while I am not saying the one time CCP does not publish a number does not mean Eve is dying. But there is a reason people study history...

...and to me, I am seeing subtle parallels to my own past history with Eve on its current path.
Prince Kobol
#62 - 2014-05-10 18:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Mike Azariah wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
just in case nobody has pointed it out.

starting your forum topic with a link to some one's blog who A) no longer plays eve, and B) RMT'd all their **** away before loudly announcing it to the world in a buttmad manner before trying to avoid the door hitting them on the way out.... that **** probably isn't the best way to start a topic.


Funny thing is . . . I disagree. It shows that even if you leave Eve. Even if you burn every damn bridge on the way out. You still watch from a distance and still care enough to take part in the meta.

Eve has many more players than any sub number would have you believe.

m



That is a really wonderful way of looking at things, it really is.

However there is another game like this

Lotro.

There are loads of players who still visit forums, still talk about the game they loved via blogs etcs, hell I haven't played Lotro for over 2 years now and I still visit and post on a player run forum regularly as it was a game I loved and is still the only Tolkein based MMO available.

The thing is, the really really important thing, is that I do not contribute 1 penny towards that game.

The same can be said for all those players who have now left Eve but still talk about it.

Financially they contribute nothing and in the CCP's world I pretty damn sure they would prefer people not talking about Eve but paying to play then talking about it and not paying.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#63 - 2014-05-10 18:51:32 UTC
Gutripper, we don't, yet, have solid facts. While I broadly agree with what you're saying, let's wait till we have hard numbers before we start setting up the 'Dinsdale was Right' t-shirt stand.
Thegasp Cupcakes
CareBears Gone Dark
#64 - 2014-05-10 19:11:44 UTC
IIshira wrote:
The number is probably down and that's why they're keeping it a secret but so what...

CCP releases it and all the sudden 100 posts with the topic "I told you this would happen when CCP nerfed sentry drones" appear.

In actuality it's probably down because of the economy. I'm not sure about the rest of the world but in the USA it's been on a downhill slide for the past few years. Most people cut stuff like video games and entertainment first.


I turned off two of my own accounts for that reason.
Dave Stark
#65 - 2014-05-10 19:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Mike Azariah wrote:
Funny thing is . . . I disagree.

good to know the CSM are fans of biased and sensationalised sources and think citing them will end well.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2014-05-10 19:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
I do not see subscriptions spelled out in the financials, but perhaps we can get to it in a sort of "backwards calculation".... at least to see if it is going up or down.

When you pay for a subscription, they do not count it immediately as revenue. It is added to something call "deferred revenue". As the time gets "used up", the deferred revenue moves to actual revenue. So, the changes in deferred revenue is an indication of how many accounts, assuming time remaining on subscriptions is fairly consistent.

Their financial results show an increase from $3.965 million to $4.360 million deferred. An increase of 15%.

I see no reason to think people have increased their subscription lengths year over year.

There is another category called in-game resources purchased but not uet consumer. That nearly doubled from 1 million to 2 million. My guess is that some of that is PLEX, but the majority is DUST money sitting on account, since DUST doesn't have subscription so won't be in the deferred subscription money


Hypothetically, for the heck of it, let's say an equal number of people pay month to month (average 15 days left and $15 a month)) and 90 days (45 days left $12 a month). in that case, every 2 people would have $7.5 and $18 in deferred income. Let's round that to $25 since this is all pure speculation anyway. $4.36 million * 2 / 25 = 348,800 accounts.

Soooooooo 300K to 400K... but probably up about 15% over year-over-year.
Transmaritanus
Exergy.
#67 - 2014-05-10 19:50:47 UTC
Sato Page wrote:
http://nerdsoliloquy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/eve-online-may-have-experienced-its.html

We would love to know the subscription number of EvE after the CSM9 election. I could see no reason for CCP to withhold this information from its players. I'm sure CCP just over looked this "minor" detail while compiling this year's election report.

So yeah...... CCP, if you could just go ahead and tell us the number..... That would be great.... Thanks.

Edit1: tl;dr: Until CSM8 CCP releases the number players who participated in the election as well as the total number of subscription on TQ. This year, for the first time, CCP only released the participation number but not the total number of subscription.



Hi poetic, nice to see you back
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#68 - 2014-05-10 19:57:37 UTC
Sato Page wrote:
http://nerdsoliloquy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/eve-online-may-have-experienced-its.html

We would love to know the subscription number of EvE after the CSM9 election. I could see no reason for CCP to withhold this information from its players. I'm sure CCP just over looked this "minor" detail while compiling this year's election report.

So yeah...... CCP, if you could just go ahead and tell us the number..... That would be great.... Thanks.

Edit1: tl;dr: Until CSM8 CCP releases the number players who participated in the election as well as the total number of subscription on TQ. This year, for the first time, CCP only released the participation number but not the total number of subscription.


Commercially sensitive info, it doesn't make good business sense to release it.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#69 - 2014-05-10 20:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Sato Page wrote:
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
Or the more likely option is that subscriber numbers are still going up but even less people give a **** about the CSM then before?


In this case, CCP should release the number. Just to kill rumour of this kind.


Yup....

The employee who did all the analysis in the blog clearly had the raw number available, but chose not to reveal it.
So really only a couple potential reasons why it was not revealed.

1. CCP is going in a new direction and not releasing sub numbers anymore, good or bad. But we have seen zero comments from management as to why that new direction.
2. It was an accidental omission.

Reason #2 is utterly implausible, and reason #1, well, why would they suddenly change?

And best thing, CCP is doubling down in steering the game in the direction that created this very likely subscription drop.
An enormously bad business decision.


It's pretty obvious just from the log in that player counts are falling, subscribers are going up though thanks to all of the alts going around, but actual players look like they are in decline.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#70 - 2014-05-10 20:50:05 UTC
CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.


like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.
Prince Kobol
#71 - 2014-05-10 20:57:10 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.


like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.



Crap. Totally and utter crap.

If you are trying to say that the goons are ruining your fun then leave as your the worst kind of player.

People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity.

If anything at least the Goons are providing content.

The Goons or any other player entity in no way control or effect my enjoyment or lack of it in Eve. The only people who effect my enjoyment are those who work for CCP.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#72 - 2014-05-10 21:00:21 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.


like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.



Crap. Totally and utter crap.

If you are trying to say that the goons are ruining your fun then leave as your the worst kind of player.

People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity.

If anything at least the Goons are providing content.

The Goons or any other player entity in no way control or effect my enjoyment or lack of it in Eve. The only people who effect my enjoyment are those who work for CCP.



lol all one has to say is the word goon and they will show up like a street corner preacher. you guys have ruined the game and im not afraid to say it. CCP encouraged bullying to the point they're finally admitting new players are avoiding joining corps and crap due to the utter chit-fest ful drama its all caused.. go chase your blue doughnut and put this game out of its misery.
Prince Kobol
#73 - 2014-05-10 21:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.


like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.



Crap. Totally and utter crap.

If you are trying to say that the goons are ruining your fun then leave as your the worst kind of player.

People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity.

If anything at least the Goons are providing content.

The Goons or any other player entity in no way control or effect my enjoyment or lack of it in Eve. The only people who effect my enjoyment are those who work for CCP.



lol all one has to say is the word goon and they will show up like a street corner preacher. you guys have ruined the game and im not afraid to say it. CCP encouraged bullying to the point they're finally admitting new players are avoiding joining corps and crap due to the utter chit-fest ful drama its all caused.. go chase your blue doughnut and put this game out of its misery.



The second you wrote "you guys" shows how little you know and that your opinion bears a striking similarly to my toilet paper after I have used it.

Its full of .........
Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-05-10 21:12:57 UTC
How about we just play the game.

Nerds.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-05-10 21:15:56 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.


like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.


The financial results do not align with your assertions. Deferred revenue from subscriptions is up 15% year-over-year. Unless there is reason to think that there are fewer subscribed users, but each has drastically increased the amount of time remaining on their accounts such that it covers up falling subscription numbers, the only viable conclusion from their financial report is that EVE subscriptions are up significantly year-over-year.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#76 - 2014-05-10 21:16:09 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:
How about we just play the game.

Nerds.



im too busy delivering a carton of milk to a station in order to earn 123 isk and 2 lp's for the moment. the game hasn't began really just sickening boring missions. it's almost as if I get a sense who ever created missions was really ticked off being tasked with it.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-05-10 21:19:19 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity.



Based on the 15% increased deferred income in the subscription category, all indications are that subscriptions to EVE are up significantly over the last year. That, or a lot of people have an extra month of subscription than they had last year.
Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-05-10 21:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahost Gceo
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
How about we just play the game.

Nerds.



im too busy delivering a carton of milk to a station in order to earn 123 isk and 2 lp's for the moment. the game hasn't began really just sickening boring missions. it's almost as if I get a sense who ever created missions was really ticked off being tasked with it.

So while I'm rolling with my alliance looking for capital ships to inappropriately fondle, I'm looking at your employment history. And what do I see? Little more than one month of total game experience. How about you say "screw it" to missions and go do something with more risk and excitement? It's out there, but YOU have to go find it. If excitement finds you instead, it's never a good thing.

Get some experience under your belt then come back and tell us what you think is wrong with the game. I'm not being a ****, but I am telling you to get some support behind your ideas.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2014-05-10 21:21:42 UTC
wait... when did they start duel training?

If 10% of accounts have activated duel... or even triple toon training, then that could actually account for the 15% increase in deferred income. When you activate, the money goes into deferred, then comes out as used up... so...
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2014-05-10 21:37:39 UTC
This reminds me somehow of a sinking ship (costa concordia) and his captain who left first before any of his passangers. What this basically means is that CCP keeps the decline of subs a secret so that the rest of the players dont run off from the sinking ship before CCP does. Just look what they done with dust, they knew that it was going down but didnt told their players until fanfest (to keep milking them). Another hint for this behaviour is for example the Dust514 login screen, it tells you how many players are online on TQ. ironically this number combines Dust+Eve players online. You surely could go and check how many of that are actual dust players (~3500). CCP calms their players by giving them the illusion that much more players are online.

TL;DR

-CCP milks dust514 then runs off without telling their players.
-CCP milks Eve and runs off (maybe) again without telling any 1 whats going on.