Crime & Punishment

I've read the entirety of the contract discussion. Several times in fact. Maybe I'm just a little slow but would you mind linking the part where Aleks explicitly says "Actually, we're not going to play ECM games, but we can kill CFC ships that have gone GCC"? I've tried to look for it or anything that might approximate to it, but its completely absent.

It's almost as if, despite Gevlon's specific request for ECM, that Alekz simply assumed that bounties offered per killmail were valid whether ECM was used or not.

Face it. When the conversation switched to discussion about specific payments, Aleks lost track and forgot about the crutial ECM part. In a desperate attempt to save face, neither he nor Noir are prepared to offer a simple apology for the cockup. Of course, to doubly-cockup by allying with their targets during a war makes incompetence a lot more like malice, so I guess it's a bit much to ask.


Are you sure he said that? Here, let me help.

"Scorps and BB's are a bit pedestrian for us. Much prefer to do things with EAF and be more mobile." - http://noirmercs.com/content.php?3455-Burn-Goblin

'If you can prove that on "Saturday" or before Tuesday Noir. was calling Gevlon a scammer please provide it.'
[i]2014.04.26 21:05:12 +57s Jita Alekseyev Karrde - He scammed us over this so
[i]2014.04.26 21:27:33 +1333s Jita Alekseyev Karrde - Scammer Goblin
and my personal favourite your twitter announcement On Saturday

25th April - Friday
26th April - Saturday
27th April Sunday


'And believe me or not I did not know that it was Gevlons alt'
I actually believe as you seem quite oblivious but others in Noir just aren't that dim.

Your Welcome

On Saturday you started crying in twitter, in jita, in the mercs channel and just about everywhere about Gevlon scamming you. It is obvious it was not a misunderstanding.

I posted a compliant about Noir in the Mercs channel forum post about Noir scamming nothing seems to have come of it. I'm sure they are investigating as I speak, ok perhaps not .

*sips chai latte*
*noms Kipferl*

No, their job was to ECM them, as per the link. Specifically the phrase "The plan would be to NOT be at war with Goons, forming up in Scorpions and Blackbirds and jamming out Goon Taloses and Brutixes when they go GCC, spoiling their ganks." requests the use of ECM.

Here's the bit that seems to be tripping people up: ===>THIS REQUEST WAS NEVER REJECTED <===

If I could add more emphasis, I would, possible flashing text, ideally with sirens. Aleks never rejected ECM, in fact he stated he would use EAFs instead. He never said he wouldn't exploit GCC and instead use killrights to sabotage fleets before they were even on grid with their targets.

When you fail to explicitly say "no" to such a specific request, you're inviting trouble. There isn't even an interpretation where Aleks even implied "no". So, unless there's an entirely different conversation of which I'm unaware, Aleks goofed the contract, period.

I see. So, paraphrased, "Please ECM goons when they go GCC" can acceptably be translated to "we'll whore in on CONCORD killmails".

You don't see the problem with this? You don't think maybe the entire strategy may need to be reworked? Exploiting GCC is no longer on the table, nor is ECM (not as a primary attack, anyway). Noir would have to engage pilots using their criminal status (if the pilot has it) or acquiring killrights - neither of these were mentioned. A wardec would be helpful, though not particularly cost effective; still, it should have been discussed as a possibility if nothing else. Crucially, Aleks offers a metric by which Gevlon can measure success and offer payment (the part you were kind enough to highlight for me). However, aggressing gank fleets means there's no way to tell the difference between intercepting them before a gank and simply whoring them before CONCORD pops them. So an entirely new metric for payment needed to be established.

You think all of that is covered in the conversation? If it is, a LOT of information is being conveyed implicitly, particularly for a contract negotiation. Maybe Noir should be more explicit in their negotiations.



That's your problem, though. When your corp screws up, the problem doesn't go away, it must be addressed. Insulting people that point out your mistakes, then compunding the issue by simply denying any mistake was made doesn't deal with the problem, it just makes it worse.

i know which way they're meant to be read, that's why i intentionally included the timestamps in m quotes.

i don't even know why i'm posting, if i correct you i won't get to laugh at your whining.

please, carry on and ignore your own evidence proving you wrong.

scroll up.

alternatively it says what it means.

if you've got to resort to literally making things up with "context" to justify your position, it should be obvious that you're wrong.

aleks proposed 5m/kill, goblin said that was great [followed by some kind of tariff system depending on ship type]. goblin should have either said no from the outset, or just paid noir. for doing what goblin agreed to.
i understand goblin is both A) a sperglord, and B) not fluent in english. however, if he was in any doubt about the service he was purchasing then he should have clarified the terms and conditions before the event. noir. aren't mind readers, they weren't to know he was asking, and paying for service X but was instead expecting service Y.