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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#2401 - 2014-05-10 05:52:39 UTC
M Key wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Combined DPS will be quite awesome. Tank will also be quite good, but I think you are forgetting marauders in proclaiming it the best.


Its going to have something like 50% more dps than my Paladin, and the tank should be even better with the same number of slots put into it. AB for some speed tanking makes a huge difference too. Marauders either have to sit there and take it on the chin to get the bastion tanking buffs, or lose it to get the speed/transversal reductions. nevermind the pain of cycling the bastion if stuff gets under your guns. I love guns for blapping frigates from 100km, but the rattlesnake is going to be murder at any range to any size ship. 3x DDA will ensure that even if you are too cheap to haul along precision missiles.

This is all PvE based. Not going to comment on PvP.

As far as the navy scorp vs rattle? Not a contest if you have even trival drone skills. Fit the rattle like a N. Scorp and It will wreck shop. Fit it proper and you got a massive advantage in every aspect of mission running other than outright tank. Mostly cause the Navy Scorp can waste slots like mad and still have a proper fit. So why not tank all the things? Don't get me wrong I love the Navy Scorpion, even before it got buffed... Its just a ship that falls behind the raw DPS other ships have to get through L4s quick.


Don't forget that the Rattle has about 10% more shield and regens it in 75% of the time.

Neither will apply their missile DPS very well compared to a Navy Raven or a Golem, but Sentry DPS. That applies. If the target is not close and fast.

I agree with you. There will not be much competition. If the Navy Scorpion wants to apply DPS to try to catch up it will need to sacrifice the extra mid for a TP or something.

We keep coming back to things we were talking about weeks ago because there hasn't been new information or Dev response since what? Page 30?
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#2402 - 2014-05-10 06:01:37 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
M Key wrote:
yes, yes, the new rattlesnake is absolutely terrible. How can it survive L4's with the best dps and best tank one can expect in highsec? I mean it HAS UNBONUSED LIGHT DRONES PEOPLE!!!!

Meanwhile I'll be grabbing one to fly the missile DPS and Tank of a Navy Scorp, while enjoying the drone DPS of a T1 drone battleship on the side.

Oh yah, and 3 DDA buffing your light drones is 3 DDA more than most battleships enjoy for their light drones.

Only real question is AB, MJD, or MJD + AB.


another reason the rattles dps needs to be shifted to drones stepping on other ships toes is bad



The Devs might just chose between stepping on Gallente toes or Caldari toes. Since they are already stepping on each other's toes, why not just see who has the most toes left? Both use blasters and rails. Mini using missiles, Amarr using drones, Amarr using missiles, Gallente no longer using missiles, Pirates stealing everything. Don't forget the Gnosis, that jerk is stepping on everyone's toes. Hmmm. Looks like everyone is toeless. Let's just try the ship and see how we like it?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2403 - 2014-05-10 06:03:55 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Navy scorp does not have better missile damage or better aplication than the new rattle.

Thermal and kinetic are two of the easiest resistances to counter. Meanwhile, while you're applying 25% more EM or explosive damage - I'm applying 60% more. But it's actually more than that because I can allocate 4-5 BCU's while most Rattlesnake configurations can sport maybe 2-3 max (not that the 5th adds a lot, but 1.5% is still 1.5%). With 8 mids the Navy Scorpion can easily match or out-tank a Rattlesnake and still have an extra slot for a target painter or web. I could also point out that the extra +50 configuration also allows it to run a 3x T2 Rigor/Flare combination for better damage application.


Navy scorp gets 25% to refire rate on just torps and cruise.

Rattle is getting 50% therm/kin damage to all missiles.

It doest matter how you decide to fit the ships or if the enemy decide to fit them kin resists the bonuses are what we see on the hull. Both ship get the same application. In practice the rattle will out damage the navy scorp because it has two damage bonuses.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2404 - 2014-05-10 06:05:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Navy scorp gets 25% to refire rate on just torps and cruise.

And rapid heavy missile launchers.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2405 - 2014-05-10 06:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur wrote:
M Key wrote:
[quote=Tyberius Franklin]Combined DPS will be quite awesome. Tank will also be quite good, but I think you are forgetting marauders in proclaiming it the best.


Its going to have something like 50% more dps than my Paladin, and the tank should be even better with the same number of slots put into it. AB for some speed tanking makes a huge difference too. Marauders either have to sit there and take it on the chin to get the bastion tanking buffs, or lose it to get the speed/transversal reductions. nevermind the pain of cycling the bastion if stuff gets under your guns. I love guns for blapping frigates from 100km, but the rattlesnake is going to be murder at any range to any size ship. 3x DDA will ensure that even if you are too cheap to haul along precision missiles.

This is all PvE based. Not going to comment on PvP.

As far as the navy scorp vs rattle? Not a contest if you have even trival drone skills. Fit the rattle like a N. Scorp and It will wreck shop. Fit it proper and you got a massive advantage in every aspect of mission running other than outright tank. Mostly cause the Navy Scorp can waste slots like mad and still have a proper fit. So why not tank all the things? Don't get me wrong I love the Navy Scorpion, even before it got buffed... Its just a ship that falls behind the raw DPS other ships have to get through L4s quick.

Just going off of omni tank, a LAR II and 2 T2 EAMN's + Bastion on a paladin out tanks a RS with an XLSB II and 3 hardners coming in at 4 slots each. Bastion + XLSB II and 2 IF's on a Golem is frankly beastly compared to either of the prior 2.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2406 - 2014-05-10 06:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
baltec1 wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Navy scorp does not have better missile damage or better aplication than the new rattle.

Thermal and kinetic are two of the easiest resistances to counter. Meanwhile, while you're applying 25% more EM or explosive damage - I'm applying 60% more. But it's actually more than that because I can allocate 4-5 BCU's while most Rattlesnake configurations can sport maybe 2-3 max (not that the 5th adds a lot, but 1.5% is still 1.5%). With 8 mids the Navy Scorpion can easily match or out-tank a Rattlesnake and still have an extra slot for a target painter or web. I could also point out that the extra +50 configuration also allows it to run a 3x T2 Rigor/Flare combination for better damage application.


Navy scorp gets 25% to refire rate on just torps and cruise.

Rattle is getting 50% therm/kin damage to all missiles.

It doest matter how you decide to fit the ships or if the enemy decide to fit them kin resists the bonuses are what we see on the hull. Both ship get the same application. In practice the rattle will out damage the navy scorp because it has two damage bonuses.

Navy Scorpion
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo Launcher, rate of fire
6 Launchers, 7 highs, 8 mids, 5 lows

Rattlesnake
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
5 Launchers, 6 highs, 7 mids, 6 lows.

In theory the Snake should out perform the Navy Scorp.. Actual outcome is not certain

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2407 - 2014-05-10 06:18:16 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Navy scorp does not have better missile damage or better aplication than the new rattle.

Thermal and kinetic are two of the easiest resistances to counter. Meanwhile, while you're applying 25% more EM or explosive damage - I'm applying 60% more. But it's actually more than that because I can allocate 4-5 BCU's while most Rattlesnake configurations can sport maybe 2-3 max (not that the 5th adds a lot, but 1.5% is still 1.5%). With 8 mids the Navy Scorpion can easily match or out-tank a Rattlesnake and still have an extra slot for a target painter or web. I could also point out that the extra +50 configuration also allows it to run a 3x T2 Rigor/Flare combination for better damage application.


Navy scorp gets 25% to refire rate on just torps and cruise.

Rattle is getting 50% therm/kin damage to all missiles.

It doest matter how you decide to fit the ships or if the enemy decide to fit them kin resists the bonuses are what we see on the hull. Both ship get the same application. In practice the rattle will out damage the navy scorp because it has two damage bonuses.

Navy Scorpion
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo Launcher, rate of fire
6 Launchers, 7 highs, 8 mids, 5 lows

Rattlesnake
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
5 Launchers, 6 highs, 7 mids, 6 lows.

In theory the Snake should out perform the Navy Scorp.. Actual outcome is not certain


Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2408 - 2014-05-10 06:21:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.

Let's see the fit.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2409 - 2014-05-10 06:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.

Let's see the fit.

[Test, Test]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

2x Garde II


1571 DPS
819 DPS from missiles.
751 DPS from gardes
334 DPS omni tank

If you use ogres, Total DPS is 1631 with 793 DPS from drones
Edit, Put wrong rigs on the fit Derp
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2410 - 2014-05-10 07:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.

Let's see the fit.

[Test, Test]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

2x Garde II


1571 DPS
819 DPS from missiles.
751 DPS from gardes
334 DPS omni tank

If you use ogres, Total DPS is 1631 with 793 DPS from drones
Edit, Put wrong rigs on the fit Derp


Make that 400 on angel bs + 657 bouncers for proper applied dps.

EDIT: math was failing me...
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2411 - 2014-05-10 07:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof
Barton Breau wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.

Let's see the fit.

[Test, Test]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

2x Garde II


1571 DPS
819 DPS from missiles.
751 DPS from gardes
334 DPS omni tank

If you use ogres, Total DPS is 1631 with 793 DPS from drones
Edit, Put wrong rigs on the fit Derp


Make that 600 on angel bs + 657 bouncers for proper applied dps.

SNI gets 814 DPS with Explosive fury, 3 CNBCUs and 2 T2 BCUs So the snake still has 400 more DPS than the SNI
Besides, It would most likely be used in Caldari/gallente space where they are shooting the resist hole.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2412 - 2014-05-10 07:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.

Let's see the fit.

[Test, Test]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

2x Garde II


1571 DPS
819 DPS from missiles.
751 DPS from gardes
334 DPS omni tank

If you use ogres, Total DPS is 1631 with 793 DPS from drones
Edit, Put wrong rigs on the fit Derp


Make that 600 on angel bs + 657 bouncers for proper applied dps.

SNI gets 814 DPS with Explosive fury, 3 CNBCUs and 2 T2 BCUs So the snake still has 400 more DPS than the SNI
Besides, It would most likely be used in Caldari/gallente space where they are shooting the resist hole.


Resist is not the issue, the speed and sig of the target is, to get to good numbers you would probably have to have to use 2 tps, maybe less rigs with those, and switch to navy cruises for fast battleships.

But ofcourse that is not a issue of you plan to be orbited (would also make the 38+19km gardes work), in which case the jump drive could be exchanged.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2413 - 2014-05-10 07:32:23 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:


Resist is not the issue, the speed and sig of the target is, to get to good numbers you would probably have to have to use 2 tps, maybe less rigs with those, and switch to navy cruises for fast battleships.

But ofcourse that is not a issue of you plan to be orbited (would also make the 38+19km gardes work), in which case the jump drive could be exchanged.

This forum post has the math from a Fleet Phoon with the same rigs. My Snake fit would be between the standard and drone Phoon fleets in his posts.
Damage application agaisnt frigs would be the lowest, But you use sentrys to pop them at range anyways.
I will admit Id probably be using Curators for my drones vs guristas/serp. I was just throwing a fit together to show the potential DPS
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2414 - 2014-05-10 07:38:19 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to out damage the scorp, there is no question about it.

Let's see the fit.


Why do you need a fit?

The only way a scorp is going to out damage a rattle is if the rattle choses to not launch its drones...
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2415 - 2014-05-10 07:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:


Resist is not the issue, the speed and sig of the target is, to get to good numbers you would probably have to have to use 2 tps, maybe less rigs with those, and switch to navy cruises for fast battleships.

But ofcourse that is not a issue of you plan to be orbited (would also make the 38+19km gardes work), in which case the jump drive could be exchanged.

This forum post has the math from a Fleet Phoon with the same rigs. My Snake fit would be between the standard and drone Phoon fleets in his posts.
Damage application agaisnt frigs would be the lowest, But you use sentrys to pop them at range anyways.
I will admit Id probably be using Curators for my drones vs guristas/serp. I was just throwing a fit together to show the potential DPS


The first post of the thread (havent read more) assumes orbit velocity (175m/s), which is not the speed they may approach, they may approach you at twice that.
So sure, you could probably pick the slower ones (some do approach at orbit velocity) and let the faster ones orbit you, but you are already handling a tp, drones, missile volleys....

EDIT: well , anyone can throw a vindi fit together for 2.2k dps @ 5km :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2416 - 2014-05-10 07:51:47 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:


Resist is not the issue, the speed and sig of the target is, to get to good numbers you would probably have to have to use 2 tps, maybe less rigs with those, and switch to navy cruises for fast battleships.

But ofcourse that is not a issue of you plan to be orbited (would also make the 38+19km gardes work), in which case the jump drive could be exchanged.

This forum post has the math from a Fleet Phoon with the same rigs. My Snake fit would be between the standard and drone Phoon fleets in his posts.
Damage application agaisnt frigs would be the lowest, But you use sentrys to pop them at range anyways.
I will admit Id probably be using Curators for my drones vs guristas/serp. I was just throwing a fit together to show the potential DPS


The first post of the thread (havent read more) assumes orbit velocity (175m/s), which is not the speed they may approach, they may approach you at twice that.
So sure, you could probably pick the slower ones (some do approach at orbit velocity) and let the faster ones orbit you, but you are already handling a tp, drones, missile volleys....

EDIT: well , anyone can throw a vindi fit together for 2.2k dps @ 5km :)


Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2417 - 2014-05-10 07:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof
Barton Breau wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:


Resist is not the issue, the speed and sig of the target is, to get to good numbers you would probably have to have to use 2 tps, maybe less rigs with those, and switch to navy cruises for fast battleships.

But ofcourse that is not a issue of you plan to be orbited (would also make the 38+19km gardes work), in which case the jump drive could be exchanged.

This forum post has the math from a Fleet Phoon with the same rigs. My Snake fit would be between the standard and drone Phoon fleets in his posts.
Damage application agaisnt frigs would be the lowest, But you use sentrys to pop them at range anyways.
I will admit Id probably be using Curators for my drones vs guristas/serp. I was just throwing a fit together to show the potential DPS


The first post of the thread (havent read more) assumes orbit velocity (175m/s), which is not the speed they may approach, they may approach you at twice that.
So sure, you could probably pick the slower ones (some do approach at orbit velocity) and let the faster ones orbit you, but you are already handling a tp, drones, missile volleys....

EDIT: well , anyone can throw a vindi fit together for 2.2k dps @ 5km :)

Fair enough about the Velocity. Using Faction Cruise and Curators i have 1300 DPS. Curators are getting a DPS increase so final amount will be around 1350 DPS. And most of that WILL be applied DPS.
This doesnt even account for the Faction Drone damage amps which people will fit on their snake.
New snake might be harder to manage but the Applied DPS is stupid
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2418 - 2014-05-10 08:01:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.


Thats a non-statement, a myrm has no problems getting its damage done in l4s, yet it is hardly optimal.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#2419 - 2014-05-10 08:09:00 UTC
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

the missiles do more base damage you you will get more total dps out of fitting 3BCU and 2DDA
just saying

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2420 - 2014-05-10 08:10:11 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

the missiles do more base damage you you will get more total dps out of fitting 3BCU and 2DDA
just saying

There are 3 BCUs in that fit. 2 Caldari navy 1 Tech 2