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25% dps drop for Gecko in Kronos

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2014-05-09 21:57:27 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So you are saying that drone interfacing has no effect on the gecko? You still haven't addressed that directly, or the reasoning of how, if the 2 are related, DI changing can't buff or nerf the gecko (or any other drone for that matter).

no, i'm saying the drone interfacing nerf isn't a nerf to the gecko (again).

the 2 being related is irrelevant. the gecko simply isn't being nerfed.

How can that be if drone interfacing has an effect on the gecko? How do you justify divorcing an item from everything that effects it?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#222 - 2014-05-09 21:59:46 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So you are saying that drone interfacing has no effect on the gecko? You still haven't addressed that directly, or the reasoning of how, if the 2 are related, DI changing can't buff or nerf the gecko (or any other drone for that matter).


Drone Interfacing modifies all drones. Thus DI being nerfed isn't nerfing the Gecko it is nerfing all drones equally. You have, for some reason, chosen to fixate on the Gecko in isolation to all other drones. The Gecko is receiving a temporary buff compared to all other drones, since its stats are based on Kronos rebalancing, while the other drones have yet to be altered for Kronos.

Please, quit the trolling. It's not funny.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2014-05-09 22:07:56 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So you are saying that drone interfacing has no effect on the gecko? You still haven't addressed that directly, or the reasoning of how, if the 2 are related, DI changing can't buff or nerf the gecko (or any other drone for that matter).


Drone Interfacing modifies all drones. Thus DI being nerfed isn't nerfing the Gecko it is nerfing all drones equally. You have, for some reason, chosen to fixate on the Gecko in isolation to all other drones. The Gecko is receiving a temporary buff compared to all other drones, since its stats are based on Kronos rebalancing, while the other drones have yet to be altered for Kronos.

Please, quit the trolling. It's not funny.
All drones includes the gecko, therefore if all drones are being nerfed then the gecko is being nerfed.

Compounding this is the fact that, as you state, the gecko is having it's power reduced to intended levels. A power reduction would be a nerf, regardless purpose though, so the fact that it's being brought to intended performance is irrelevant (that, or a nerf to any OP game element is in fact not a nerf). The other drones are having base stats increased to counteract the drone interfacing change.


This singles out the gecko as being nerfed without the corresponding buff.

Do you disagree?
Dave Stark
#224 - 2014-05-09 22:10:38 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So you are saying that drone interfacing has no effect on the gecko? You still haven't addressed that directly, or the reasoning of how, if the 2 are related, DI changing can't buff or nerf the gecko (or any other drone for that matter).

no, i'm saying the drone interfacing nerf isn't a nerf to the gecko (again).

the 2 being related is irrelevant. the gecko simply isn't being nerfed.

How can that be if drone interfacing has an effect on the gecko? How do you justify divorcing an item from everything that effects it?


how can it be? very simply. it just isn't getting nerfed. it's not getting changed.
i don't understand why you're having such a hard time understanding that if something doesn't change, it doesn't get nerfed.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2014-05-09 22:18:34 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So you are saying that drone interfacing has no effect on the gecko? You still haven't addressed that directly, or the reasoning of how, if the 2 are related, DI changing can't buff or nerf the gecko (or any other drone for that matter).

no, i'm saying the drone interfacing nerf isn't a nerf to the gecko (again).

the 2 being related is irrelevant. the gecko simply isn't being nerfed.

How can that be if drone interfacing has an effect on the gecko? How do you justify divorcing an item from everything that effects it?


how can it be? very simply. it just isn't getting nerfed. it's not getting changed.
i don't understand why you're having such a hard time understanding that if something doesn't change, it doesn't get nerfed.
Because, as stated before, it doesn't exist in isolation. There are factors which have constant effects on it. The only way those factors can't nerf or buff the items they effect is if the definition of "nerf" explicitly says they don't or explicitly says altering the item itself is the only way it can be caused. I've not found a definition that satisfies either.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#226 - 2014-05-09 22:19:02 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:


You obviously missed the part where Caldari drones are getting a HUGE tracking and speed bonus, so they will be able to more effectively apply their DPS, putting them on-part with Gallente and Minmatar drones.

Last time I checked, Geckos are technically Caldari.


Jarod! DONT...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184&gl=GB&hl=en-GB



LOL

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Dave Stark
#227 - 2014-05-09 22:19:35 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Because, as stated before, it doesn't exist in isolation. There are factors which have constant effects on it. The only way those factors can't nerf or buff the items they effect is if the definition of "nerf" explicitly says they don't or explicitly says altering the item itself is the only way it can be caused. I've not found a definition that satisfies either.


the gecko isn't getting changed.
you can't nerf something that isn't getting changed.
Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#228 - 2014-05-09 22:22:05 UTC
Holy **** dude,

They give us a free fast drone with good tracking and omni damage. And you dare to complain that it will not make all other drones obsolete?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2014-05-09 22:23:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Because, as stated before, it doesn't exist in isolation. There are factors which have constant effects on it. The only way those factors can't nerf or buff the items they effect is if the definition of "nerf" explicitly says they don't or explicitly says altering the item itself is the only way it can be caused. I've not found a definition that satisfies either.


the gecko isn't getting changed.
you can't nerf something that isn't getting changed.

Changing something isn't limited to it's base stats.
Dave Stark
#230 - 2014-05-09 22:26:25 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Because, as stated before, it doesn't exist in isolation. There are factors which have constant effects on it. The only way those factors can't nerf or buff the items they effect is if the definition of "nerf" explicitly says they don't or explicitly says altering the item itself is the only way it can be caused. I've not found a definition that satisfies either.


the gecko isn't getting changed.
you can't nerf something that isn't getting changed.

Changing something isn't limited to it's base stats.

you either change it or you don't, and in kronos the gecko isn't being changed. (or nerfed)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2014-05-09 22:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Because, as stated before, it doesn't exist in isolation. There are factors which have constant effects on it. The only way those factors can't nerf or buff the items they effect is if the definition of "nerf" explicitly says they don't or explicitly says altering the item itself is the only way it can be caused. I've not found a definition that satisfies either.


the gecko isn't getting changed.
you can't nerf something that isn't getting changed.

Changing something isn't limited to it's base stats.

you either change it or you don't, and in kronos the gecko isn't being changed. (or nerfed)

Changing something isn't limited to it's base stats. Again for emphasis.
Dave Stark
#232 - 2014-05-09 22:28:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Because, as stated before, it doesn't exist in isolation. There are factors which have constant effects on it. The only way those factors can't nerf or buff the items they effect is if the definition of "nerf" explicitly says they don't or explicitly says altering the item itself is the only way it can be caused. I've not found a definition that satisfies either.


the gecko isn't getting changed.
you can't nerf something that isn't getting changed.

Changing something isn't limited to it's base stats.

you either change it or you don't, and in kronos the gecko isn't being changed. (or nerfed)

Changing something isn't limited to it's base stats.

repeating things, doesn't change facts.

the gecko still isn't getting nerfed (and it's still not getting changed since it already has it's kronos stats as per fozzie's tweets)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2014-05-09 22:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Dave Stark wrote:

repeating things, doesn't change facts.

the gecko still isn't getting nerfed (and it's still not getting changed since it already has it's kronos stats as per fozzie's tweets)
Which doesn't change the fact that the drone is changing by way of the changes to drone interfacing. which is changing in Kronos.

Edit: Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something?
Dave Stark
#234 - 2014-05-09 22:37:13 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

repeating things, doesn't change facts.

the gecko still isn't getting nerfed (and it's still not getting changed since it already has it's kronos stats as per fozzie's tweets)
Which doesn't change the fact that the drone is changing by way of the changes to drone interfacing. which is changing in Kronos.

Edit: Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something?


the done isn't changing though, as we've been told by ccp.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2014-05-09 22:38:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

repeating things, doesn't change facts.

the gecko still isn't getting nerfed (and it's still not getting changed since it already has it's kronos stats as per fozzie's tweets)
Which doesn't change the fact that the drone is changing by way of the changes to drone interfacing. which is changing in Kronos.

Edit: Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something?


the done isn't changing though, as we've been told by ccp.

Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something? If not that means external changes, such as the one to DI still count.
Dave Stark
#236 - 2014-05-09 22:41:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

repeating things, doesn't change facts.

the gecko still isn't getting nerfed (and it's still not getting changed since it already has it's kronos stats as per fozzie's tweets)
Which doesn't change the fact that the drone is changing by way of the changes to drone interfacing. which is changing in Kronos.

Edit: Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something?


the done isn't changing though, as we've been told by ccp.

Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something? If not that means external changes, such as the one to DI still count.


the definition is irrelevant, you can't nerf something if it isn't changing.
also, of course there's no source. the word doesn't actually exist in the english language, it's slang.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2014-05-09 22:47:42 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

repeating things, doesn't change facts.

the gecko still isn't getting nerfed (and it's still not getting changed since it already has it's kronos stats as per fozzie's tweets)
Which doesn't change the fact that the drone is changing by way of the changes to drone interfacing. which is changing in Kronos.

Edit: Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something?


the done isn't changing though, as we've been told by ccp.

Do you have a source for that definition of nerf which excludes all but the base stats of something? If not that means external changes, such as the one to DI still count.


the definition is irrelevant, you can't nerf something if it isn't changing.
also, of course there's no source. the word doesn't actually exist in the english language, it's slang.

The definition is perfectly relevant. It either qualifies or disqualifies the idea that a nerf to something is only able to be achieved through the base stats of an item or not.

Again bringing up another comparable scenario, would nerfing controlled bursts not be a nerf to lasers or hybrids?
Dave Stark
#238 - 2014-05-09 22:48:50 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Again bringing up another comparable scenario, would nerfing controlled bursts not be a nerf to lasers or hybrids?

no, you just clearly said it's a nerf to controlled bursts.
hopefully your example illustrates to you why the gecko isn't being nerfed.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2014-05-09 22:52:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Again bringing up another comparable scenario, would nerfing controlled bursts not be a nerf to lasers or hybrids?

no, you just clearly said it's a nerf to controlled bursts.
hopefully your example illustrates to you why the gecko isn't being nerfed.

No, it doesn't because every laser and hybrid would be changing as a result, and that change would be quantifiable as positive or negative, and consequently be labelled as a buff or nerf.

Unless of course nerf is explicitly limited to the items base stats, something you seem very insistent upon despite refusing to own up to it and further saying that there is not actual definition, thus making your claim actually unprovable.
Dave Stark
#240 - 2014-05-09 22:53:18 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Again bringing up another comparable scenario, would nerfing controlled bursts not be a nerf to lasers or hybrids?

no, you just clearly said it's a nerf to controlled bursts.
hopefully your example illustrates to you why the gecko isn't being nerfed.

No, it doesn't because every laser and hybrid would be changing as a result, and that change would be quantifiable as positive or negative, and consequently be labelled as a buff or nerf.

Unless of course nerf is explicitly limited to the items base stats, something you seem very insistent upon despite refusing to own up to it and further saying that there is not actual definition, thus making your claim actually unprovable.

no, none of the hybrids or lasers are changing.
you said a change to controlled bursts, you didn't mention any changes to lasers or hybrids.