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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#2341 - 2014-05-09 05:37:12 UTC
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:


With Heavies you have the other drawbacks of drones, notably travel time though this is being partly addressed in the drone update, and the fact that they can be destroyed or individually disrupted with ECM a fair bit easier than the mother ship. They don't apply nearly as well to smaller targets, and with the competition in fitting they won't be getting much better at it. Although you *can* send them out 60km, it's probably not a good idea, especially if tackle is available to the enemy---at the current bonus level it will be trivial to pop one, and even at 500% it's not going to take long, though against NPC's they will be much more survivable.

Of course the Gecko seems gimmicky... it's a gimmick, like all the other anniversary presents. Mine are all stored in the Voidstar Museum of EVE history in Duripant with the rest of the holiday and anniversary stuff I have been granted. When BPC's start dropping, we can discuss the Gecko as the savior of Drone Kind.

I think you're being a bit too harsh.

First of all, this drone deals nearly the same DPS as an equivalent bandwidth of Ogre II's, but has 30% better tracking, 33% faster orbit and much, much faster warp speed. All while having the durability of an equivalent bandwidth of Augmented Ogres.

It's almost the most damaging andalmost the fastest, super durable and all wrapped up in a wicked awesome skin with sick battle animations.

No, it's not OP. But I don't really care. It's still wicked awesome and I plan on using mine.

Thats all very nice... But eventually they will die. What then? Unless blueprints start dropping these are a fun little gimmick that will be great while they last but ultimately they do not impact the balance of the ship or drones in general because they exist outside the supply chain. Kinda like Gnosis didnt redefine battlecruisers, these wont redefine drones.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2342 - 2014-05-09 08:41:43 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
It's a gift. Don't look a gift drone in the bay.

What's the expression... "Beware Guristas bearing gifts?" This feels more like a Trojan Horse...

Geckos - Like the Handkerchief you got from Grandma every year for Xmas - You have a drawer full of them but no real use.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#2343 - 2014-05-09 09:33:44 UTC
If any of you feel the Geckos are useless, I will gladly trade them for normal T2 heavies of your choice on a 2:1 basis (2 T2 heavies per Gecko).
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2344 - 2014-05-09 09:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
No, it's not OP. But I don't really care. It's still wicked awesome and I plan on using mine.

Try it and get back to us...



They are fun, no doubt about that, but the quoted damage, certainly does not apply in all or even most cases fully.
As for using these to claim the Rattlesnake will be overpowered with better bonuses, that just gets more and more detached from reality.
They really should have painted a red herring on the horizontal stabilisers.

That aside, I still like them.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2345 - 2014-05-09 09:59:46 UTC
The Rattlesnake is a nice ship, i quite like the changes to it. I think i will like it even more. Just two things that i notice about it right away:



  • Damage distribution: A stronger forcus on the Launchers for the Rattlesnake. The DPS may be 50/50 in the future, between drones and the launchers. I would have loved to see a stronger drone focus, especially now that a new line of BS (Mordu's Legion) is coming out with a strong launcher focus - and the guristas being called upon having "hero drones". So just a personal flavor kind of thing, but i feel the rattlesnake could do with more drone DPS and less launcher DPS.

  • Drone control range: so far the Rattlesnake had 2 ultility high slots, that were in many cases used for 2 drone link augmentors to increase the drone control range. Due to the long range nature of sentries, this may be a quite strong limitation. How about adding a 4000m control range bonus per gallente skill, so that on Gallente BS 5 you could replace one drone link augmentor through skills? As it stands now, it is a nerf in range the Rattlesnake can be useful in

  • drone bay: Love the versatility the Rattlesnake had with its huge drone bay. To either carry the right drone for every situation, or to keep on extras, if the ones in use were destroyes. A ship that has "hero drones", and may depend on them more, should keep this focus. The old Rattlesnake could carry around 6 flights of drones easily.. a mix of all sorts and sizes. The new one can only carry 4 flights if you mix them in sizes (the use of only 2 drones already counted in on heavy and sentries). So losing its capability to carry as many drones as so far seems to be a nerf to me. I would really like seeing it increased to at least 225m³ - or maybe even bigger than that.



So the dmg of the Rattle gets buffed up (nice!), its versatility and range gets nerfed (why not just keep it as is)? Not all too happy with that. So i really hope those aspects may be looked over again, and some drone control range bonus added, and the drone bay increased again. As mentioned above i would also love seeing a stronger focus on the drone DPS instead of the launchers, especially now that we can look forward to new launcher specialized faction ships. For drone users, there is no real alternative to the Rattlesnake - throw us drone fetishists a bone ;)
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2346 - 2014-05-09 10:17:57 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
The Gallente are in no way overpowered. It is that people are broken.


The Ishtar, Megathron, and Moros are so overpowered that there is absolutely no reason to ever fly any other HAC, battleship, or dreadnought, ever. These three ships are better than all their competitors at literally every relevant role.


Naglfar.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2347 - 2014-05-09 10:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
To be fair, it's not possible for anything to take the "most powerful drone boat" crown right now. That is because it would have to surpass the Ishtar, which we all know is just bonkers and no-one wants more of that crazy flying around.

Of course, that assumes you assume that "most powerful drone boat" is focused on the drones themselves rather than the complete package.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2348 - 2014-05-09 10:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
afkalt wrote:
To be fair, it's not possible for anything to take the "most powerful drone boat" crown right now. That is because it would have to surpass the Ishtar, which we all know is just bonkers and no-one wants more of that crazy flying around.

Of course, that assumes you assume that "most powerful drone boat" is focused on the drones themselves rather than the complete package.



No, he was quite clear.
There was absolutely no ambiguity in his statement whatsoever.
And logically a pirate battleship, with the pirate focus on drones, would have better drones IN SOME WAY than a t2 cruiser.

It is the some way that gives such room for interest.

While sentries are nice, I imagine that if this had Gila class drones scaled up to battleship class, or heavy drones that applied damage as well as the ishtar. Plus a little, then that would be achieved.

I wonder what He and Fozzie have in mind?

Because with the current proposal, it is in No way a good drone boat.

Personally, I vote for Gila class medium hero drones, with a scaled battleship class bonus if he wants to keep the numbers in a flight down.
Improved Heavies with the issues solved, would match with currently bonused sentries, but either way most of the suggestions offered by people do a better job than the current suggestion in the OP.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2349 - 2014-05-09 10:50:48 UTC
You missed my point - it was simply there is no place in the game for something more nasty than an ishtar, they're just bonkers right now.


That said, to address my second point, consider Mournful's post - that says to me most powerful subcap drone boat (actually most powerful subcap missile boat too). Granted it can't use bonused lights or mediums but well...look at it. It's actually so powerful I suppose you could make the argument that it doesnt matter if it had them or not because it's so nasty, but there needs to be a snowballs chance in hell something can tackle it and not die in seconds.

Anyway, I've no real interest in going round this loop again, it's back at page 7x with the mental superheavy tackle/DPS rattlesnake Gypsio originally mentioned. I might make one and call it "if this is on scan RUN" just for kicks Smile
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2350 - 2014-05-09 10:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
afkalt wrote:
You missed my point - it was simply there is no place in the game for something more nasty than an ishtar, they're just bonkers right now.


That said, to address my second point, consider Mournful's post - that says to me most powerful subcap drone boat (actually most powerful subcap missile boat too). Granted it can't use bonused lights or mediums but well...look at it. It's actually so powerful I suppose you could make the argument that it doesnt matter if it had them or not because it's so nasty, but there needs to be a snowballs chance in hell something can tackle it and not die in seconds.

Anyway, I've no real interest in going round this loop again, it's back at page 7x with the mental superheavy tackle/DPS rattlesnake Gypsio originally mentioned. I might make one and call it "if this is on scan RUN" just for kicks Smile



I do understand your point, however, if it was DIFFERENT, and the drone side a bit more powerful than the ishtar, then that does not need to be a bad thing.

In real EvE ishtars and domis usually use sentries as primary and mobile drones ( heavies) as secondary. I suggest that with the rattlesnake, mobile drones become primary, sentries become secondary.

Different role , with different application then does not become overpowered.
This ship does not need to compete directly with the T1 Dominix and T2 ishtar.

It can be good by being different.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2351 - 2014-05-09 10:56:43 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
The Gallente are in no way overpowered. It is that people are broken.


The Ishtar, Megathron, and Moros are so overpowered that there is absolutely no reason to ever fly any other HAC, battleship, or dreadnought, ever. These three ships are better than all their competitors at literally every relevant role.


Naglfar.


Sentry assist carriers got nerfed, we're not trying to alpha carriers off the field anymore.
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2352 - 2014-05-09 11:06:52 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Improved Heavies with the issues solved, would match with currently bonused sentries, but either way most of the suggestions offered by people do a better job than the current suggestion in the OP.

Rattle should be able to field "a full flight" of two Gecko drones to be what she needs to be. Just saying... and no, it wouldn't be OP especially if compared to some other overly powerful pirate ships.
Ghost Mabata
Doomheim
#2353 - 2014-05-09 14:57:35 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
NOM NOM NOM
Whats the requirement to work for CCP(EvE Online) Big smile
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#2354 - 2014-05-09 16:02:48 UTC
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Improved Heavies with the issues solved, would match with currently bonused sentries, but either way most of the suggestions offered by people do a better job than the current suggestion in the OP.

Rattle should be able to field "a full flight" of two Gecko drones to be what she needs to be. Just saying... and no, it wouldn't be OP especially if compared to some other overly powerful pirate ships.



The amusing part about this is that it would put the effective DPS of around 14 heavies on the field. I am sure I heard a similar suggestion to that around here somewhere...
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2355 - 2014-05-09 17:08:06 UTC
There are two Rattlesnake camps:
1. Those who love it because it's now geared towards PvP.
2. Those who hate it because they're losing their PvE functionality.

I can certainly appreciate that many are excited because of the expanded PvP possibilities, but in fairness - this is not going to be the same ship for missioning - not even close.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2356 - 2014-05-09 17:12:30 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
There are two Rattlesnake camps:
1. Those who love it because it's now geared towards PvP.
2. Those who hate it because they're losing their PvE functionality.

I can certainly appreciate that many are excited because of the expanded PvP possibilities, but in fairness - this is not going to be the same ship for missioning - not even close.


Its going to be faster at killing things in pve too.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2357 - 2014-05-09 17:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
I've missioned a lot, and I assure you it'll be better.

Fits might need altering, but probably not.

Low skill people might suffer, but if you're sitting in arguably the most skill intensive battleship (Blops don't count) in the game....well....I've little sympathy. Sounds harsh but I'm well aware of what a well fit and played one can do in missions and that's not changed.

No, the fundamental issue is a psychological one that light and medium drones somehow mattered before.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2358 - 2014-05-09 17:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
i concur.

superdrones seem to work well in PvE and the missile damage bonus will be more versatile across more ranges than a velocity bonus.

edit - and the lack of bonused light drones does **** all to missions. i use heavies more than lights to kill frigs and spider drones and i havent used mediums in a mission since i realised they also do **** all that heavies cant do better.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2359 - 2014-05-09 17:25:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to be faster at killing things in pve too.

Not the way players geared their ships for it. They'll have to evolve.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2360 - 2014-05-09 17:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its going to be faster at killing things in pve too.

Not the way players geared their ships for it. They'll have to evolve.



Yes. Not a bad thing and when they do, they'll see what it's really able to do. Ironically this could be done now and it'd be eye opening.

As I said underskilled pilots might suffer, though unfortunate we cant very balance at that level.