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Dev Blog: CSM 9 Results!

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Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#61 - 2014-05-09 17:13:24 UTC
The CSM8 minutes are getting published 3-5 months after the discussions occurred, and long after CCP themselves have announced their direction for the next expansion based on the CSM discussion. They've had both of their sessions before the first sessions' minutes have been published.

CSM8 1st session August 2013 -> published 2 Feb 2014
CSM8 2nd session Jan 2014 -> published 11 April 2014

This is why nobody knows what effect the CSM has.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#62 - 2014-05-09 17:14:09 UTC
was a shame there wasn't 800 votes there to help swing the vote in one person's favor

or even a tenth of that really
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-05-09 17:17:15 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Jayem See wrote:

I may be misunderstanding, certainly not an unheard of occurence, but if their objective was just to get Core into the CSM then they succeeded.

Even if every other vote they could have taken was wasted, it's still mission success for them. No?

if I give you three boxes filled with money and you trip and drop one into the river because you tied your shoelaces to each other by mistake, you've still got two boxes of money

but that doesn't change that you lost an entire box full of money by being unable to tie your shoelaces


But I still have two boxes of money right? Thanks.

My lost votes are fine with me as I didn't care massively about them. Also - nobody else told me how to use them. My 8 votes were used how I saw fit.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#64 - 2014-05-09 17:20:48 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now, wonder what the cause was from the following choices:

a. CCP completely bungled the entire "get out the vote" concept to new players (love the huge chunk of new accounts created for the vote, wonder how many will be active next month?)
b. As Malcanis, mynnna, and the rest of the cartel propaganda team suggests, I, the lone high sec champion, managed to suppress the vote, with my posting of dead accurate analysis of what CCP and the cartels are doing with Eve.
c. The majority of the player base, high sec, recognized the direction the game is heading, realized the futility of voting and didn't.
d. All of the above.

So what you're saying is that you, personally, is responsible for what will happen to highsec in the year to come since you did your best to ensure that it is being represented as little as possible?

Good work man.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#65 - 2014-05-09 17:22:26 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jayem See wrote:

I may be misunderstanding, certainly not an unheard of occurence, but if their objective was just to get Core into the CSM then they succeeded.

Even if every other vote they could have taken was wasted, it's still mission success for them. No?

if I give you three boxes filled with money and you trip and drop one into the river because you tied your shoelaces to each other by mistake, you've still got two boxes of money

but that doesn't change that you lost an entire box full of money by being unable to tie your shoelaces


But I still have two boxes of money right? Thanks.

My lost votes are fine with me as I didn't care massively about them. Also - nobody else told me how to use them. My 8 votes were used how I saw fit.


Yup.

Ignore the goon spin doctors.

I voted for 8 people, even ones I disliked, but felt would counter the cartel control of the CSM.
I could only find 8 of the 14 that I could stomach, and even then, I knew some were highly sympathetic to other concepts I find abhorrent.

So if you see only 1 person you want on the ballot, and the rest you hate, then vote for the one, and you will be able to sleep at night.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#66 - 2014-05-09 17:23:47 UTC
should have uplifted some better candidates then

it is hardly our fault that the rest of eve is utterly incapable of grade-school level organization

and that is a pretty generous light to put our organization in
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-05-09 17:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayem See
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jayem See wrote:

I may be misunderstanding, certainly not an unheard of occurence, but if their objective was just to get Core into the CSM then they succeeded.

Even if every other vote they could have taken was wasted, it's still mission success for them. No?

if I give you three boxes filled with money and you trip and drop one into the river because you tied your shoelaces to each other by mistake, you've still got two boxes of money

but that doesn't change that you lost an entire box full of money by being unable to tie your shoelaces


But I still have two boxes of money right? Thanks.

My lost votes are fine with me as I didn't care massively about them. Also - nobody else told me how to use them. My 8 votes were used how I saw fit.


Yup.

Ignore the goon spin doctors.

I voted for 8 people, even ones I disliked, but felt would counter the cartel control of the CSM.
I could only find 8 of the 14 that I could stomach, and even then, I knew some were highly sympathetic to other concepts I find abhorrent.

So if you see only 1 person you want on the ballot, and the rest you hate, then vote for the one, and you will be able to sleep at night.


Oh dear - please don't agree with me! Don't want that on my copy-book!

Holy **** Dinsdale - I have enough trouble.

Edit: My view is very different from Din's

Aaaaaaand relax.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2014-05-09 17:26:59 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I voted for 8 people, even ones I disliked, but felt would counter the cartel control of the CSM.
…so you're saying that the CSM matters and that “the majority of the player base, high sec” did a very stupid thing by incorrectly assuming that it's futile to vote? And you're suggesting that this is your fault?
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#69 - 2014-05-09 17:29:14 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Voting is a lot of work and it's pretty hard.


it is when they're asking you to pick 14 people.
i literally got to about 6 or 7 candidates and went "oh **** it, i can't be bothered" hit submit, and didn't bother logging in to vote on my alts.


Picking 14 isn't required, you know. You pick up to 14. The "not filling in your ballot" mockery that Weaselior is engaging in is directed at the Provibloc folks, the vast majority of which put Corebloodbrothers and literally no one else down.

e with numbers: 2944 people listed Core as their first pick. 1736 of them listed no one else. By the end of the election over 800 of those votes transferred their way off into the void instead of doing anything.

What's there to mock? Is that in someway a problem for the system? I don't think it's a problem for the people who voted, since they got what they wanted in this case. I tried the website where you compare candidates and found a total of 2 who might be pushing for things that had major positive impact on my gameplay. Rest were mainly interested in pushing things, that are irrelevant to me or just had unacceptable views on the game in general. Out of those 2 people one got in and I'm pleased. I vote simply because I want to see a specific person or persons on the CSM. The system on the other hand seems to be designed for a more nuanced and manipulative voting in mind, but surely the simplistic for someone -voting isn't a problem for it. It just doesn't take advantage of all the opportunities to manipulate the end result to your liking.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2014-05-09 17:34:37 UTC
DSQ - I would say that is a perfect example of the system working as intended. One focus and a result.

I don't think Provi voted giving a turd about anyone else. Despite Weaselior thinking that the rest mattered - it doesn't - Provi achieved their aim and have a CSM.

Do I care? Not much. Do I care about the people I voted for - yep.



Aaaaaaand relax.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-05-09 17:35:36 UTC
i was going to explain more why you're all nuts but i then realized that i want you to stay this way so i will agree that you did exactly the right thing, thanks buddies

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#72 - 2014-05-09 17:37:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I voted for 8 people, even ones I disliked, but felt would counter the cartel control of the CSM.
…so you're saying that the CSM matters and that “the majority of the player base, high sec” did a very stupid thing by incorrectly assuming that it's futile to vote? And you're suggesting that this is your fault?


I don't go down logical sink holes with you.
You have implied many times that the cartels don't even exist.

Find someone else to troll.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-05-09 17:38:33 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
i was going to explain more why you're all nuts but i then realized that i want you to stay this way so i will agree that you did exactly the right thing, thanks buddies


Lol - run out of arguments so will just say I am right.

Good work.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#74 - 2014-05-09 17:39:09 UTC
Oh, and BTW, will see the total votes as a percentage of the total sub base?
Dave Stark
#75 - 2014-05-09 17:39:28 UTC
if i understand it properly, the point was that provi "wasted" 800 votes, and when people missed out by 79 votes... that 800 could have had a substantial impact upon the results. if provi are fine with that, power to them but 800 votes is still a significant amount.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#76 - 2014-05-09 17:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I don't go down logical sink holes with you.
True enough. You dive head-long down them all on your own. I'm just trying to figure out what kind of pretzel-logic made you take that leap.

You do realise the contradiction of what you're saying right? That on the one hand, there's the (mythical) “cartel control” of CSM needs to be countered, and on the other hand, that it is futile to vote for the CSM.

Quote:
You have implied many times that the cartels don't even exist.
You have failed on every occasion to show that they do. You've also failed to show, on the off-chance that they do exist, that this is a bad thing and that it's a problem that they manage to vote people onto the CSM.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#77 - 2014-05-09 17:41:26 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i was going to explain more why you're all nuts but i then realized that i want you to stay this way so i will agree that you did exactly the right thing, thanks buddies


Lol - run out of arguments so will just say I am right.

Good work.

when your argument is "i was being willfully obtuse due to laziness and/or mental defect" then we are more than happy to let you be right
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-05-09 17:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayem See
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i was going to explain more why you're all nuts but i then realized that i want you to stay this way so i will agree that you did exactly the right thing, thanks buddies


Lol - run out of arguments so will just say I am right.

Good work.

when your argument is "i was being willfully obtuse due to laziness and/or mental defect" then we are more than happy to let you be right


I didn't mean me, smartypants. Big smile

Aaaaaaand relax.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2014-05-09 17:48:17 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i was going to explain more why you're all nuts but i then realized that i want you to stay this way so i will agree that you did exactly the right thing, thanks buddies


Lol - run out of arguments so will just say I am right.

Good work.

you were right, I was wrong to criticize your voting strategy

please accept my apology and inform everyone else that you were correct

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-05-09 17:51:08 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i was going to explain more why you're all nuts but i then realized that i want you to stay this way so i will agree that you did exactly the right thing, thanks buddies


Lol - run out of arguments so will just say I am right.

Good work.

you were right, I was wrong to criticize your voting strategy

please accept my apology and inform everyone else that you were correct


Carry on being told how to vote by someone else and realise that this is just a game.

Aaaaaaand relax.