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Combat Drone Operation Being Effectively Removed from the Game

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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#41 - 2014-05-09 13:08:01 UTC
It is funny. As per the old blog, the skills would indeed be simply replaced. As per the new information, technically one skill is split and one skill is being removed. I'll see how CCP handles this but I won't hold my breath for a SP reimbursement.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-05-09 13:09:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Wasn't being willfully obtuse. Just ********. I'm done here.

That's ok. I know that the devblog was itself a bit obtuse — I just thought that they had made it pretty clear by now what was going to be done.

I like to think I'm usually pretty good about keeping track of changes. Dropped the ball pretty hard this time.

Although I will say I have no idea what's going on with industry. Haven't had the willpower to try and dig through all those devblogs on the subject. Which is why I haven't tried to get in any discussions about it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#43 - 2014-05-09 13:11:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Although I will say I have no idea what's going on with industry. Haven't had the willpower to try and dig through all those devblogs on the subject. Which is why I haven't tried to get in any discussions about it.

i agree with you on the industry stuff.
like 5 blogs of stuff to read through. it's a lot to digest all at once.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#44 - 2014-05-09 13:15:48 UTC
CCP could communicate some of these things better.
Dave Stark
#45 - 2014-05-09 13:16:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP could communicate some of these things better.

like updating the dev blog. which they've done before to other dev blogs.
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#46 - 2014-05-09 13:20:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I like to think I'm usually pretty good about keeping track of changes. Dropped the ball pretty hard this time.


Not your fault, you really had to be watching the feedback thread on that blog in order to know about the highest between SDO/CDO skill being applied. A few of us had to hound Fozzie in order to get him to clarify and the blog was never updated so it was quite easy to miss.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-05-09 13:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
To people still saying that CDO was a useless train if you have SDO trained to V:

Until June 3rd, CDO is useful.

After June 3rd, it will cease to exist. So it won't be useless nor useful.

So in a sense, CDO will always be useful.

Mind blowing!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#48 - 2014-05-09 13:25:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP could communicate some of these things better.


Well... We all know they aren't the best at doing that. ;)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2014-05-09 13:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
So, it'll work like this for the actual skill levels (and like this for your SP).

e: Both have been updated to show the “complaint zone” in blue, where you could have gotten the same for less.

SDO = Scout Drone Ops; CDO = Combat Drone Ops; LDO = Light Drone Ops; MDO = Medium Drone Ops; DAv = Drone Avionics.

A few things to note:
• Under exactly one condition do you gain more ability than you have now: when your Scout Drone Ops > Combat Drone Ops.
• Under exactly one condition do you not gain more SP than you have now: when both SDO and CDO is at level 0.
• You do not gain DAv unless you have SDO trained, but you do gain LDO and MDO no matter which of the two old skills you have trained.
Dave Stark
#50 - 2014-05-09 13:27:34 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP could communicate some of these things better.


Well... We all know they aren't the best at doing that. ;)


even though they fat fingered the announcement; they're still better than a lot of other companies at communication and feedback.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-05-09 13:44:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So, it'll work like this (SDO = Scout Drone Ops; CDO = Combat Drone Ops; LDO = Light Drone Ops; MDO = Medium Drone Ops; DAv = Drone Avionics).

A few things to note:
• Under exactly one condition do you gain more ability than you have now: when your Scout Drone Ops > Combat Drone Ops.
• Under exactly one condition do you not gain more SP than you have now: when both SDO and CDO is at level 0.
• You do not gain DAv unless you have SDO trained, but you do gain LDO and MDO no matter which of the two old skills you have trained.

As mentioned previously, this method of skill transition seems badly thought through.

This method would make a lot more sense;

Combat drone operation = drone avionics

Scout drone operation = medium drone + light drone operation.

That way there is no overlap and all skills serve a purpose when being transitioned unlike the current proposed transition arrangement.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2014-05-09 14:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Medalyn Isis wrote:
This method would make a lot more sense;

Combat drone operation = drone avionics

Scout drone operation = medium drone + light drone operation.
It doesn't make much more sense than what they're doing now, though.

The problem with that is that none of the old skills correspond properly with the new skills.

SDO is the drone control range skill, so its being transformed into Drone Avionics makes sense… but it also unlocks light and medium drones, which means translating it to LDO/MDO makes sense too.
CDO is the light/medium drone damage skill, so its being translated into LDO/MDO also makes sense, but turning it into Drone Avionics does not.

The problem right now is that the drone control range skill unlocks drones rather than drone range modules, for some obscure reason. Yes, with the transition method they've chosen, people could conceivably gain more (or new) abilities compared to before, but that holds just as true under your model — suddenly, characters with CDO gain drone control range that they didn't train for and characters with SDO gain drone damage bonuses they didn't train for. Moreover, you are turning a rank-2 skill into a rank-1 skill and a rank-1 skill into a rank-3 skill (this compared to what they're doing: rank 2 → rank 1+2 and rank 1 → rank 1, with a possible additional 3 ranks if your drone skill training is odd).


Put another way: the current drone skills don't make sense. They are making them make sense. The transition will inevitably not make sense because of the senseless foundation it has to build on. The senselessness they've picked is probably the more sensible of the bunch. P
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#53 - 2014-05-09 14:28:20 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:

As mentioned previously, this method of skill transition seems badly thought through.

This method would make a lot more sense;

Combat drone operation = drone avionics

Scout drone operation = medium drone + light drone operation.

That way there is no overlap and all skills serve a purpose when being transitioned unlike the current proposed transition arrangement.


It might be bad, but it's the only way that CCP can swap the skills over and not screw someone. It would be nice if it was a 1 to 1 swap, but because light/meds were unlocked on scout drones (aka distance) instead of combat drones (damage), the progression is currently screwed up.

There could be people out there that put 5 in scout drones, and next to nothing in combat drones, to unlock T2s. If CCP went exclusively off Combat drones those players would loose access to tech they'd already unlocked. Conversely, players that have high stats in Combat drones but low Scout Drones (unlikely, but possible), would get the T2s but loose any damage bonuses they previously had.

If they had unlocked lights and meds using combat drones, like how the heavy and sentry drones are further up the tree, they could get away with just splitting the skill. It's because the desired effect (unlocking T2 AND damage bonuses) is spread across two skills currently that they need to take the higher of them. Otherwise someone is going to lose out.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#54 - 2014-05-09 14:32:07 UTC
Oh cool this thread again

Hai

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#55 - 2014-05-09 14:59:20 UTC
Arguing semantics: The thread.

I would suggest to CCP that everyone still posting here after page 4 will get 50k skill points removed from a random skill.

Dumbass will learn or dumbass will pain.
Solecist Project's Alt
Doomheim
#56 - 2014-05-09 15:01:59 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Arguing semantics: The thread.

I would suggest to CCP that everyone still posting here after page 4 will get 50k skill points removed from a random skill.

Dumbass will learn or dumbass will pain.

dumbass will pain. Engrish?

In before skillpoint removal.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#57 - 2014-05-09 15:05:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
This method would make a lot more sense;

Combat drone operation = drone avionics

Scout drone operation = medium drone + light drone operation.
It doesn't make much more sense than what they're doing now, though.

The problem with that is that none of the old skills correspond properly with the new skills.

SDO is the drone control range skill, so its being transformed into Drone Avionics makes sense… but it also unlocks light and medium drones, which means translating it to LDO/MDO makes sense too.
CDO is the light/medium drone damage skill, so its being translated into LDO/MDO also makes sense, but turning it into Drone Avionics does not.

The problem right now is that the drone control range skill unlocks drones rather than drone range modules, for some obscure reason. Yes, with the transition method they've chosen, people could conceivably gain more (or new) abilities compared to before, but that holds just as true under your model — suddenly, characters with CDO gain drone control range that they didn't train for and characters with SDO gain drone damage bonuses they didn't train for. Moreover, you are turning a rank-2 skill into a rank-1 skill and a rank-1 skill into a rank-3 skill (this compared to what they're doing: rank 2 → rank 1+2 and rank 1 → rank 1, with a possible additional 3 ranks if your drone skill training is odd).


Put another way: the current drone skills don't make sense. They are making them make sense. The transition will inevitably not make sense because of the senseless foundation it has to build on. The senselessness they've picked is probably the more sensible of the bunch. P

Very true, switching combat drone operation to rank 1 from a rank 2 skill would not be so good. I was mainly thinking this because a lot of people train combat drone operation V for the drone link augmentor II, which is now unlocked by drone avionics. As you say though it is a bit of a illogical mess at the moment.

I would probably favour simply removing combat drone operation from the game completely and using scout drone operation for transitioning the 3 skills.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#58 - 2014-05-09 15:18:20 UTC
Not getting SP, OP.

Unless, ofc, CCP decides they want to give it to you.

I would rather talk about the elephant in the room...

Two skills effectively becoming 3.

I am already at the point where I cringe each time I have to buy a med clone.

Y u no cater to my clone costs, CCP?

Y?

Big smileRollPirate

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Marsha Mallow
#59 - 2014-05-09 16:16:40 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Although I will say I have no idea what's going on with industry. Haven't had the willpower to try and dig through all those devblogs on the subject. Which is why I haven't tried to get in any discussions about it.

i agree with you on the industry stuff.
like 5 blogs of stuff to read through. it's a lot to digest all at once.

Same. I've read the blogs and did monitor the first feedback thread but it hit so many pages its too much to try monitor loads at once to see what's being said. In a way it might be easier to do survey responses to major change blogs and publish the stats, but keep the comments separate.

Re this Drone thing, it needs to stay on GD a while I reckon, even if it means reposting. I completely missed this, and tbh when the patch hits everyone else who has is going to be peeved. Although the OP is a bit argumentative rather than informative.
This post, if correct, summarised things reasonably clearly.

Siphaanu wrote:

I'll illustrate my understanding of the change through an example.

Current skills on one of my characters:
Skill name / skill rank / trained level / accumulated skill points
Combat Drone Operation / Rank 2 / L4 / 90.510
Scout Drone Operation / Rank 1 / L5 / 256.000

Current combined SP: 346.510

Predicted post-change skills on the same character:
Skill name / skill rank / trained level / accumulated skill points
Light Drone Operation / Rank 1 / L5 / 256.000
Medium Drone Operation / Rank 2 / L5 / 512.000
Drone Avionics / Rank 1 / L5 / 256.000

Predicted post-change combined SP: 1.024.000

So, if I understand this correctly and there won't be any additional changes to the planned implementation, I will gain 677490 SP.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#60 - 2014-05-09 16:27:10 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:

I would suggest to CCP that everyone still posting here after page 4 will get 50k skill points removed from a random skill.
.


I also feel anyone who disagrees with me should be harshly punished far in excess of how it effects me, especially if if does not effect me at all.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann