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Recruitment and API keys
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Spurty
#21 - 2014-05-08 16:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
Because people are nosy of course Lol

Also, 3rd party tools use this information to grant you access to 'in-house information'.

You are effectively cutting off your own nose to spite your face. Question

They don't need FULL access, but would be a fair sign of an unhealthy corp if they didn't want to make sure your first act wasn't to fly up to a corp member carrying loot to Jita and pop him without any CONCORD intervention.

In short, your concern is far lesser than their paranoia because these things happen frequently. Twisted

Comes down to one thing. Who needs who more?

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#22 - 2014-05-08 16:26:22 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
It merely provides in-game information. People want this info to prevent spies, awoxers, etc. They're not just asking because they're curious or nosy, they're protecting their membership.


Want in on a secret?

It doesn't work.


Not empty quoting.





☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Spurty
#23 - 2014-05-08 16:27:54 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
It merely provides in-game information. People want this info to prevent spies, awoxers, etc. They're not just asking because they're curious or nosy, they're protecting their membership.


Want in on a secret?

It doesn't work.


Not empty quoting.




It works enough to be a deterrent to 'everybody doing it'.

Always going to be 1 or 2 cases where someone slips up / through

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-05-08 16:28:22 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
It merely provides in-game information. People want this info to prevent spies, awoxers, etc. They're not just asking because they're curious or nosy, they're protecting their membership.


Want in on a secret?

It doesn't work.


Not empty quoting.








This. At most it represents a filter for the dilettantes, but they're not that dangerous to begin with. Anyone who's out to do some real damage is going to show up with a squeaky clean API.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#25 - 2014-05-08 16:30:23 UTC
APIs are powerful enough to keep spais out if you know what you are doing. Time tables of joined vs start of issues help a lot as well.

One of the corps I used to run got skunked when we joined an alliance. After comparing time tables, including skunked mails, and join dates, we were able to find the rat and kick him out. It solved the issue immediatly, though it did take us a few days to get it sorted.

@OP, if you don't want to provide the information, then don't. Just don't expect to get in a half decent corp.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#26 - 2014-05-08 16:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Spurty wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
It merely provides in-game information. People want this info to prevent spies, awoxers, etc. They're not just asking because they're curious or nosy, they're protecting their membership.


Want in on a secret?

It doesn't work.


Not empty quoting.




It works enough to be a deterrent to 'everybody doing it'.

Always going to be 1 or 2 cases where someone slips up / through


You mean like most door locks are intended only to keep honest people honest because they are so easily circumvented?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#27 - 2014-05-08 16:33:00 UTC
Spurty wrote:


It works enough to be a deterrent to 'everybody doing it'.

Always going to be 1 or 2 cases where someone slips up / through


Its not everybody you should be watching out for.

Its dedicated infiltrators who generate dozens of "new players" every year as their profession.

APIs are worthless against these.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#28 - 2014-05-08 16:36:37 UTC
Debyl Vuld wrote:
So I've been gone a while, and in my recent return to eve I've discovered that if you are looking for a corp, every single corp you want to join now needs a full API key from you - ie: a backdoor into your account, all your mails, your finances, your implants and everything about you contained within.

When did it become normal to volunteer that kind of information to some neckbeard in the videogame? When you refuse to give it on principle people treat you like you have two heads, like you're hiding something. It seems people cannot comprehend that you don't want to volunteer a backdoor into your account to people you don't know any more than those people want to let you in without knowing a little more about you.

Even when I offer a kills-only API to show I don't kill corp mates, I'm still told to gtfo like I were some pariah. I find it really frustrating that this is now the norm and there doesn't seem to be much way around it. Even with references, 90 mil sp, FC ability, 9 mil sp in leadership etc. even small corps with 10 guys have told me to get lost because I would not give more than a kills-only API.

I wonder if CCP foresaw this when they expanded the API function a few years ago. That it is now the norm to bare all to strangers just to join their space-guild.

It's a sign trust. Clearly you cannot be trusted.

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-05-08 16:37:07 UTC
Sections of the API that I use for background checks: Account wide financial transactions (especially when looking at characters < 1 month old), most communications (especially contacts), asset list, and kill log. These let you know who the applicant has interacted with. Any large one way isk or item transactions should look very suspicious, and can indicate other alts. Asset lists are more a preventative measure against future corp thefts. Kill log should be used to see former (or current) allies. Any characters that pop up on the api more than once should be treated to a basic background check of forum posts, evewho, evelive and kill boards.

Everything listed above can be circumvented, but this weeds out most "target of opportunity" awoxes, and makes it easier to catch future corp thefts so the player should be required to keep the API active.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Marsha Mallow
#30 - 2014-05-08 16:38:05 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

Its not everybody you should be watching out for.

Its dedicated infiltrators who generate dozens of "new players" every year as their profession.

APIs are worthless against these.

You don't even need to roll that many, just cycle sub/unsub various alts.

The APIs do purge market/wallet data after a while and the breaks look like genuine time out of game.

The 'returning players' are always the ones to squint at. *squints at OP*

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-05-08 16:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well because people are encouraged to play the villain, a lot of people do. So because corps instantly allow you to start ganking your corpmates, don't allow you to boot someone while they are in space, and offer some of the most primitive methods of setting up corp security, it's easier to just put in large limitations on who you recruit, leading off with making sure they are willing to give up all information about themselves.

Corporation stuff is in dire need of some love. Pretty much the way it works at the moment, it's great for encouraging villains, but it actively discourages teamwork for that very reason.


The only place this is an issue is in hisec corps. In every other area of space, lowsec, nullsec, whs, you can gank your corpmates, your former corpmates, or just that random guy on the gate, any time you want. Do hisec pilots really need yet another protection? There are ways of minimizing awoxers and safari alts available. Nullsec, lowsec, and wh corps employ these tactics now. Is there some reason hisec corps can't as well?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#32 - 2014-05-08 16:41:02 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:

You don't even need to roll that many, just cycle sub/unsub various alts.

The APIs do purge market/wallet data after a while and the breaks look like genuine time out of game.

The 'returning players' are always the ones to squint at. *squints at OP*


Sorry, I was meaning a high turnover rather than having a pile of spares on standby.

But yes, what you said too, just nitpicking lol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-05-08 16:56:43 UTC
Sections of the API that I use for background checks: Account wide financial transactions (especially when looking at characters < 1 month old), most communications (especially contacts), asset list, and kill log. These let you know who the applicant has interacted with. Any large one way isk or item transactions should look very suspicious, and can indicate other alts. Asset lists are more a preventative measure against future corp thefts. Kill log should be used to see former (or current) allies. Any characters that pop up on the api more than once should be treated to a basic background check of forum posts, evewho, evelive and kill boards.

Everything listed above can be circumvented, but this weeds out most "target of opportunity" awoxes, and makes it easier to catch future corp thefts so the player should be required to keep the API active.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-05-08 17:11:55 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
It merely provides in-game information. People want this info to prevent spies, awoxers, etc. They're not just asking because they're curious or nosy, they're protecting their membership.


Want in on a secret?

It doesn't work.


Not empty quoting.








This. At most it represents a filter for the dilettantes, but they're not that dangerous to begin with. Anyone who's out to do some real damage is going to show up with a squeaky clean API.


Nothing is foolproof, but basic security measures like an API check adds a layer of effort that keeps out a whole crowd of casual griefers like me. You can bet that if Awoxing was as easy as suicide ganking it would be rampant.

If your industry corp doesn't do background checks, you don't want to be involved with them anyways; at the very least, it's a sure sign of dumb leadership.
Debyl Vuld
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-05-08 17:13:09 UTC
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
It's a sign trust. Clearly you cannot be trusted.


You're right, but that doesn't mean I'm out to screw anyone. We all have our secrets.

One of mine is I had a character in your corp in the first delve war and PL's campaign in fountain back in 2007/8, and fed info to PL and goons, even after PL moved to venal and you guys came crawling back to fountain now that the coast was clear, I kept feeding info to your enemies.
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2014-05-08 17:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Foiritain
Debyl Vuld wrote:
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
It's a sign trust. Clearly you cannot be trusted.


You're right, but that doesn't mean I'm out to screw anyone. We all have our secrets.

One of mine is I had a character in your corp in the first delve war and PL's campaign in fountain back in 2007/8, and fed info to PL and goons, even after PL moved to venal and you guys came crawling back to fountain now that the coast was clear, I kept feeding info to your enemies.

You weren't alone, we've had plenty of spies over the years. Also our website was hacked & our DB was leaked a bunch of times. Obviously this wasn't surprising given our crucial role in BOB's coalition. Lol

A dedicated spy will get in regardless of your security measures but API checks keep the lazy, the terrible and dumb out, which is about 90% of them.

Edit: Also i dont actually recall PL coming to Fountain and we never left Fountain during the time we lived there as we could easily hide in our precious NPC stations. Are you sure you're thinking of the right corp?

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#37 - 2014-05-08 17:27:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Psychotic Monk is the reason why.

You don't need a full API in his case.
Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#38 - 2014-05-08 17:30:29 UTC
RvB does not require API key.
Chapmonious Hunter
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-05-08 18:55:59 UTC
Victor Dathar wrote:
Ask them if they will take a isk deposit to cover without you giving an API that will be returned once you have proven your good character?



what if Ive been killed by goons? does this mean I get a discount?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#40 - 2014-05-08 20:41:17 UTC
Debyl Vuld wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
So what are you trying to hide, OP?


I want to hide my trading methods, my shiptoasting alts, my private eve-mails to my friends in-game and my assets. And there's nothing wrong with that.

All of which is only viewable to the recruiter. If you don't trust the recruiter enough to not run around ******* up your trading, then don't join that corp.
It's a problem that really fixes itself.

Also most "Full API" checks don't ask for your evemails. The ones who do don't know what they're doing, and you shouldn't join them.

2/3rds the time people only ask for Full API to deter people with something to hide, they have no idea how to actually use the information to determine whether someone is or not. I've handed over Full API's for an awoxing character multiple times.

Also sending anything personal by evemail is just a bad idea, full stop.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,