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Expanding Market PVP: Need advice
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Nikita Arjar
How to PVP 101
#1 - 2014-05-04 19:48:27 UTC
With your guys previous advice my operation took a big leap in profits so thank you for that! Currently I'm station trading with moderate success. I've trained Accounting/Broker Relations/Margin Trading to 4 (Margin trading is awesome btw) and will be finishing Trade 5 soon. Training Retail up after trade will double my available market orders. Which means I'll have plenty of room to expand. Now for my questions!

Are accounting/broker fees accurately represented in the wallet? Currently my fees total 1.5%. I know standings effect these fees. Does the wallet take standings into account when calculating those percentages? Reference Image

Better standings with the corp that owns the station your trading in means less broker fees. Does my corp standing with the station corp have any effect? Say How to PVP 101 has 10.0 standing with Emperor Family Academy and Nikita Arjar is neutral(0.0) to EFA. Will my broker fees be very low due to my corp standing or normal since this character is neutral?

I'm pretty sure I know what markets I'm going to expand into but since I'm here might as well ask. Station trading, as I understand it, is all about turn over. The faster you can buy then sell something the more profit you can earn. Obviously this isn't the only metric to use when buying and selling but it is the essence of station trading. How do you tell what has high turnover on the market? Currently I'm using volume and number of orders to narrow the field and then picking items to inspect individually.

On a related note, is there some sort of index for station trading? Items listed in a database somewhere that are ranked based on some function on how good they would be for station trading? If not, what would you use to make such an index?


Any feedback is appreciated! I have this foolish idea that I might make a newbie guide to station trading with everything I've learned in the past couple weeks Big smile
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#2 - 2014-05-04 20:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
The correct taxes/fees should be shown in your wallet journal, although I've never actually compared the sell order window with the journal. Anything else wouldn't make sense.

All market orders/contracts are only affected by the skills/standings of the order/contract creating character.

Nikita Arjar wrote:
On a related note, is there some sort of index for station trading? Items listed in a database somewhere that are ranked based on some function on how good they would be for station trading? If not, what would you use to make such an index?


If such a thing publicly existed, and was linked here, what do you think would happen to the items on the top of the list?

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Nikita Arjar
How to PVP 101
#3 - 2014-05-04 20:26:16 UTC
So you're saying my corp's standings have no effect on trading? Only personal standings effect broker fees?

Also I'd assume the index would be updated daily or how ever fast the api cache would allow.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#4 - 2014-05-04 23:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Myriad Blaze
Nikita Arjar wrote:
So you're saying my corp's standings have no effect on trading? Only personal standings effect broker fees?

Your personal corp (and faction) standings have a strong effect on trading as they reduce your broker fee.
Your corp's standings don't.

Here's the formula for broker fee (taken from UniWiki):
Broker Fee Equation
Check here for explanations: Trading - UniWiki (go to the bottom of the page).

The reference image you posted shows the base broker fee.
The base broker fee only takes your Broker Relations skill level into account. It's then modified according to your corp and faction standing. The actual broker fee is shown when you set up a buy order (make sure your buy window is set to advanced - it's the second to last line).

Also you state your "total" fees are at 1.5%. In the given context it seems as if you mean the total of transaction tax and broker fees. If that's the case you probably only counted the broker fee once, whereas you need to count it twice - you pay the broker fee for buy and sell orders each.
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#5 - 2014-05-05 00:01:36 UTC
Nikita Arjar wrote:
So you're saying my corp's standings have no effect on trading? Only personal standings effect broker fees?

Also I'd assume the index would be updated daily or how ever fast the api cache would allow.


I'm going to go ahead and say that's something you should find out for yourself, just keep clicking items you're familiar with and look at something that catches your eye.
There will never be a public list with "top items' even if it was daily updated you'd now be competing with everyone else trying to make profit, that's why you want to get your own stuff.
Once you get the hang of station trading you will automatically know what to buy/sell and when, for example changes CCP makes to the game can have a great effect on the price of an item. So do large fleet fights etc.

Oh and yeah, only personal standings are effective on your brokers fees.

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Nikita Arjar
How to PVP 101
#6 - 2014-05-05 00:06:31 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:

Also you state your "total" fees are at 1.5%. In the given context it seems as if you mean the total of transaction tax and broker fees. If that's the case you probably only counted the broker fee once, whereas you need to count it twice - you pay the broker fee for buy and sell orders each.


Good catch! Thank you for the tip
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#7 - 2014-05-05 01:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Trade 5 is a trap. It has worse return on training time than any other skill in that series other than Tycoon 5.

Trade 4 - Retail 5 - Wholesale 4 OR Trade 4 - Retail 5 - Wholesale 5 - Tycoon 4 is optimal.

Edit: If you are less than 80% of the way through Trade 5, pause it until you have Wholesale 4 at least.

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Eto Demerhzel
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-05-05 10:45:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eto Demerhzel
If you want to know exactly how much is your borker fee
take an item for sell, just one, set sell price to 100 billion

http://i59.tinypic.com/2v3t0ex.png

The number in broker's fee you get is your real taxe, convert it to 0.7421628942 (for my ex) in your spreedsheet..


And, yes you have to calculate you broker fee twice, but one for you buy order, and one for you sell order (only if you set a buy order to purchase).. so not exactly double it..

see exemple above
You can see my broker fee is 0,7421568941%
http://i58.tinypic.com/1tvmug.png
Nikita Arjar
How to PVP 101
#9 - 2014-05-05 17:27:10 UTC
Great tips guys! Unfortunately I already trained Trade 5 because I thought you needed it for retail X derp
Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-05-07 22:42:22 UTC
Nikita, another great thing to check is the 'tails' either side of the median daily item price shown on the graph. The longer the tails either side the better the chance of having your buy and sell orders sell quickly.

For more info on this check this out : http://evemogul.com/station-trading/ Video, graphs, explanations, etc. Might be of some use to you.



P.S. if trading is your thing, you can never have enough market order slots - more slots equal more isk!

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2014-05-08 03:21:31 UTC
Eve Mogul wrote:


P.S. if trading is your thing, you can never have enough market order slots - more slots equal more isk!



I was doing just fine with Trade 4 - Retail 5 - Wholesale 3 until recently. I have now pushed beyond that and am training Wholesale 5 (with intent to get Tycoon 4) but I do not expect to often use all those slots.

I do not have anywhere near the trading capital needed even for the 109 slots I used to have, but now that I am more involved in region trading I do need them.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
#12 - 2014-05-08 04:33:47 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Here's the formula for broker fee (taken from UniWiki): Broker Fee Equation
Check here for explanations: Trading - UniWiki (go to the bottom of the page).

Generally good information in your post, but that EVE University formula was made incorrect more than three years ago, when the formula was changed. The corrected formula for Market Order Broker Fees is here: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Thoraemond/eve-market-order-broker-fees-20110417.png.

• Graph re Market Order Broker Fees (Updated 2016-04-28) • Diagram re Skills for Remote Trading •
Malan Hashur
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-05-08 06:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Malan Hashur
Elizabeth Norn wrote:

Nikita Arjar wrote:
On a related note, is there some sort of index for station trading? Items listed in a database somewhere that are ranked based on some function on how good they would be for station trading? If not, what would you use to make such an index?


If such a thing publicly existed, and was linked here, what do you think would happen to the items on the top of the list?


People would start to trade with it, creating a more dynamic market, since there will be additional supply/demand.