These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Is the new "bullet time" / time diliation feature going to completely KILL EvE?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#81 - 2011-09-11 12:00:00 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Yes, if a large scale fight breaks out on a non-reinforced node, other systems hosted on the same node will slow down as well. While this isn't ideal, it's still considerably better than what happens today.


Have you decided yet if you will be showing which systems are using TiDi on the map like other states of the game or will FC's have to send scouts out to see what the state of other systems are?


Hay Veritas you skipped a questionStraightShockedBig smile


Sorry 'bout that. I hadn't considered putting it on the map like that, but with a few hours for it to rattle around my brain, I'm not a fan. Primarily because it should be a rather rare event and 3-way fights (such that 1 group wouldn't already know the dilation state) are very rare.

I'm quite willing to be wrong.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#82 - 2011-09-11 12:21:11 UTC
I guess the idea was so that when a unreinforced node gets placed into TiDi there would be a way for the guy hauling on the other side of the universe to tell if his whole flight plan is effected or if its just one system that is effected. Maybe hook the TiDi indicator in to the autopilot somehow?

As you know the up coming changes that are going to change how sov fights work or even more improvemen that you have made some major improvements to lag that have not made it to sisi yet. I'll look forward to the devblogs to say you have raised the limit another 500 players or so per system.

The drop in people logging in is hurting your chances to record laggy fights. Hope that changes.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
#83 - 2011-09-11 12:28:30 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Yes, if a large scale fight breaks out on a non-reinforced node, other systems hosted on the same node will slow down as well. While this isn't ideal, it's still considerably better than what happens today.


Have you decided yet if you will be showing which systems are using TiDi on the map like other states of the game or will FC's have to send scouts out to see what the state of other systems are?


Hay Veritas you skipped a questionStraightShockedBig smile


Sorry 'bout that. I hadn't considered putting it on the map like that, but with a few hours for it to rattle around my brain, I'm not a fan. Primarily because it should be a rather rare event and 3-way fights (such that 1 group wouldn't already know the dilation state) are very rare.

I'm quite willing to be wrong.


Maybe make some kind of "Traffic advisory warning" so that neutral 3rd parties that are uninterested/non-griefers/hate time dilation stop and take a detour around the dilated node? Something that pops up when you set the destination towards somewhere and you have to pass through one of these nodes to get there.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2011-09-11 13:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Yes, if a large scale fight breaks out on a non-reinforced node, other systems hosted on the same node will slow down as well. While this isn't ideal, it's still considerably better than what happens today.


Have you decided yet if you will be showing which systems are using TiDi on the map like other states of the game or will FC's have to send scouts out to see what the state of other systems are?


Hay Veritas you skipped a questionStraightShockedBig smile


Sorry 'bout that. I hadn't considered putting it on the map like that, but with a few hours for it to rattle around my brain, I'm not a fan. Primarily because it should be a rather rare event and 3-way fights (such that 1 group wouldn't already know the dilation state) are very rare.

I'm quite willing to be wrong.

would mostly be a way of keeping you guys honest P

currently at most 1-2k pilots are experiencing lag while the other 40k logged in pilots go happy about their business without ever getting to know that some fight in a faraway corner of null-sec lagged badly..

if this information were made public through the map (and maybe even aggregated & logged by tools such as dotlan) overall awareness of lag being an issue would certainly increase Pirate
Leonora D
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2011-09-11 13:36:37 UTC
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?

Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?


That is easy to solve. After someone jumps in they get to wait for the time in the system that is TDed to catch up to the time when he jumped in.

Harder to fix jumping out but that should have less effect on fleet fights so hopefully not a big issue.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#86 - 2011-09-11 16:55:38 UTC
]
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?

Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?


I doubt TiDi will be so huge and go on for so long that this will be a big issue. It takes quite awhile to go 10 jumps and return.

But more importantly: This is currently an issue even without TiDi. A lagged out system still runs slow, allowing someone to jump out and return while little happens in the lagged out system. TiDi does not make this a worse issue.

Also remember the new ship gets hit with TiDi as soon as it jumps into a lagged system, it will not get any speed advantage.

As a result, some sort of time catchup system should not be needed, and would add a extra level of coding complexity this would just delay things.

CCP Veritas: You may want to include as part of the test people jumping into and out of a system experiencing TiDi. This would require 2 nodes, one of which has the big fight. Then have some designated players jumping in and out. You could simply tell us that if anyone showing up in a frig will be in this special group, and tell everyone else to please not shoot frigs. (Hopefully this allows them to survive long enough to jump a few times.)

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Pharago
Nughat Corp
#87 - 2011-09-11 17:59:40 UTC
I think time dilation is a great idea, and by great I mean awesome.

After reading the devblog I can't think of an explanation for anyone thinking that is not going to have a very positive impact in large engagements.

Of course it looks very promising but we will have to wait and see the real deal before starting to get our hopes too high.
Pharago
Nughat Corp
#88 - 2011-09-11 18:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Pharago
Leonora D wrote:
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?

Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?


That is easy to solve. After someone jumps in they get to wait for the time in the system that is TDed to catch up to the time when he jumped in.

Harder to fix jumping out but that should have less effect on fleet fights so hopefully not a big issue.


I don't think it would be necessary to make such change, if a pilot wants to commit a new ship to the fight it his choice, it wouldn't be any different to boarding a ship stored in the hangar bay of a nearby carrier.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2011-09-11 20:22:44 UTC
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
Bullet time is going to completely ruin this game. Worse than anything else before it.


Why don't you go RMT some ISK about it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
PantrashMoFo
Bruggen Raiders
#90 - 2011-09-12 03:21:40 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
[quote=CCP Veritas]How will you get a big blob of lag on Sisi? Ive been in the last few mass tests and there has been some lag, but not that much.


The sane plan is to add in thin clients. The insane plan is to allow time to go past 1x speed.

I haven't decided which is better.


got to go with the insane plan.....

Prepare ship for ludicrous speed! Fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo!
Kenpachi Viktor
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2011-09-12 10:47:44 UTC
both: thin clients and faster than 1x speed Pirate

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#92 - 2011-09-12 11:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?

Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?

I look forward to endless battles. It will make the giant fleet engagements not only into yet more epic stories, and more epic experiences to go through, but it will also turn them into make or break experiences for alliances when they commit to total war like that.

Just think, log in, join a fleet going to war, fight til bed time, come back after work, long in and fly to the same fight. The ultimate test of how strong your force is Twisted

Also, I vote for the insane plan. It is obviously superior because SUPERHYPERNANOMEGATITAN GO!!!

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tosser Galore
Doomheim
#93 - 2011-09-12 11:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tosser Galore
The internet idiot reductionist fallacy: "Uh why does [insert ebil code churning company here] not want to "multithread/optimize their game code for my umpticore CPU...


A: Yes because it's that simple, moron.

Edit: I HATE MACS.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#94 - 2011-09-12 11:25:01 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
After we ship, we plan to go back to work increasing capacity. These things are not mutually-exclusive. Rather, they're quite complementary.


Will Time Dilation buy the opportunity to experiment with interesting mechanics such as line-of-fire collision detection?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#95 - 2011-09-12 11:29:22 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Have you decided yet if you will be showing which systems are using TiDi on the map like other states of the game or will FC's have to send scouts out to see what the state of other systems are?


Sorry 'bout that. I hadn't considered putting it on the map like that, but with a few hours for it to rattle around my brain, I'm not a fan. Primarily because it should be a rather rare event and 3-way fights (such that 1 group wouldn't already know the dilation state) are very rare.


There's also the moth + flame issue there.

"Oh! A Time-dilated fight is in progress! GET TO THA CHOPPPA!"

Suddenly the 2000 vs 2000 fight becomes 5000 v 5000 and each cycle of that Navy Omen's lasers takes two minutes Twisted

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#96 - 2011-09-12 11:31:40 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Have you decided yet if you will be showing which systems are using TiDi on the map like other states of the game or will FC's have to send scouts out to see what the state of other systems are?


Sorry 'bout that. I hadn't considered putting it on the map like that, but with a few hours for it to rattle around my brain, I'm not a fan. Primarily because it should be a rather rare event and 3-way fights (such that 1 group wouldn't already know the dilation state) are very rare.


There's also the moth + flame issue there.

"Oh! A Time-dilated fight is in progress! GET TO THA CHOPPPA!"

Suddenly the 2000 vs 2000 fight becomes 5000 v 5000 and each cycle of that Navy Omen's lasers takes two minutes Twisted

Hence our much anticipate 3 day long fight... more people keep piling in, getting bored, logging off, and be replaced by a new group... Soon, all of EvE is in 1 system that is moving at 0.1% of real time! But smoothly Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#97 - 2011-09-12 11:43:39 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?

Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?

I look forward to endless battles. It will make the giant fleet engagements not only into yet more epic stories, and more epic experiences to go through, but it will also turn them into make or break experiences for alliances when they commit to total war like that.

Just think, log in, join a fleet going to war, fight til bed time, come back after work, long in and fly to the same fight. The ultimate test of how strong your force is Twisted

Also, I vote for the insane plan. It is obviously superior because SUPERHYPERNANOMEGATITAN GO!!!


You really are getting the wrong idea about Time Dilation. Listen carefully:

TIME DILATION WILL NOT MAKE FLEET FIGHTS LAST LONGER THAN THEY ALREADY DO

In fact there is every chance that TiDi will in the end make fleet fights faster, since "graceful lag" will make it easier to kill ships, and the quicker ships are killed, the quicker the battle ends (or at least reduces to proportions that don't trigger TiDi).

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#98 - 2011-09-12 12:08:17 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
[quote=CCP Veritas]How will you get a big blob of lag on Sisi? Ive been in the last few mass tests and there has been some lag, but not that much.


The sane plan is to add in thin clients. The insane plan is to allow time to go past 1x speed.

I haven't decided which is better.


The second option would certainly be COOLER.. I mean.. CLICKFRENZY!
I'd love to see what my dramiel is doing when everything is going twice as fast....

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Errastas
Fate Amenable To Change
#99 - 2011-09-12 12:11:13 UTC
This is all well and good, but will we see it done in time for wintery 'expansion' ?

MMORPG.com article mentions so many things, but doesn't make a clear distinction which features will be live this winter and which are planned for future. Renders article quite useless.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#100 - 2011-09-12 12:34:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Lisa Valenheim wrote:
A prob with time dilation I can think of, is that if it's applied to one or two systems, with outside systems remaining unaffected, is that does it affect reshipping?

Eg some1 gets killed jumps out, runs 10 jumps to reship, and comes back within a couple of module timers? So to the ppl in the time dilated system it seems that some1 dies and almost magically reappears in a new ship. Combined with the slowdown of time, will it create endless battles?

I look forward to endless battles. It will make the giant fleet engagements not only into yet more epic stories, and more epic experiences to go through, but it will also turn them into make or break experiences for alliances when they commit to total war like that.

Just think, log in, join a fleet going to war, fight til bed time, come back after work, long in and fly to the same fight. The ultimate test of how strong your force is Twisted

Also, I vote for the insane plan. It is obviously superior because SUPERHYPERNANOMEGATITAN GO!!!


You really are getting the wrong idea about Time Dilation. Listen carefully:

TIME DILATION WILL NOT MAKE FLEET FIGHTS LAST LONGER THAN THEY ALREADY DO

In fact there is every chance that TiDi will in the end make fleet fights faster, since "graceful lag" will make it easier to kill ships, and the quicker ships are killed, the quicker the battle ends (or at least reduces to proportions that don't trigger TiDi).

A) I think TD is a good thing, and fights as they are would last the time time or less
B) the concern, and my rather hope, is that they will effectively end up going a bit longer because you can get reinforcement ships there in time to replace yourself more effectively.
and
C) 3rd party scouts would pass through the system, and call in their fleets to jump into the fight turning it into a even more laggy(and therefor time flowing slower, but still fighting smoothly and entertainingly) fight, making it last longer that way.

TD will change the way fights roll because people won't be as hesitant to jump into the big laggy fights, and so they will escalate more than they do now(much as they would with less lag generated)

No one with a brain thinks they will make fights as they are slower, or worse, or anything negative, and the people who see the escalation value mostly think thats a good thing.

WE WANT!!! Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.