Player Features and Ideas Discussion

:tinfoil hat:

Hey fozzie, ran some EFT tests with the new numbers, and they still aren't very rosy.

After patch, a all LV5 character will have torps at 2250 explosion radius, 52.5 explosion velocity.

Against linked carriers moving at full speed, the new torps are still only able to apply 60% of their nominal damage, while certainly better than the 50% now, it's still pretty pathetic. The explosion radius change means against linked armor carriers (using an archon for example) it's not possible to even hit a carrier standing still for full damage, because the sig of the carrier is now below the sig for the torps.

So the situation arises that you can't hit a triage carrier for full damage because you can't paint them to boost their sig.

OK, so at first i was worried that the Explosion radius was a bit much. After seeing that GMP does hit capital missiles, that would be up to a 25% reduction in sig.

After reviewing my old post:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4079522#post4079522


Here is some math:




old real math (30m was the velocity i made up without nerfing the radius)
Base damage * [ (2920 / 2000) * (20 / 70) ] ^ 1
Base damage * [ (1.46) * (0.28) ]
Base damage * (0.40)

New Torp:
Base damage * [ (2920 / 3000) * (35 / 70) ] ^ 1
Base damage * [ (0.97) * (0.5) ]
Base damage * (0.48)



While the ROF does give better DPS, I would rather have a less hard nerf onto the Radius in place of the ROF boost of the modules.

Not even sure if its in game or not, but how about letting us know what the towers resist are at when it has hardeners online via the info display?

Instead of guessing, or making some tower profile with a 3rd party program.

I don't feel that the explosion radius nerf is necessary really. As others have mentioned, sieged dreads with signature links won't get hit for full damage; analogies related to the broad side of a barn come to mind.

You say that you're worried about it becoming a sub-cap blap monster, but I would disagree. A triple webbed / painted armor tanked Tengu (yes, armor tanked Tengus are normal where I live) will have a signature radius of about 330m, and velocity of 146 m/s with AB on. With a T2 rigor rig equipped, it's going to take only ~15% damage from citadel torpedoes, which is pretty pathetic when compared to what a Moros or Naglfar can apply.

I'm fine with the phoenix being able to apply 100% damage only to other capitals (though that better be a true 100%), with gun dreads having an advantage when it comes to sub-capital killing, but being unable to apply even half damage a webbed / painted Bhaalgorn is a problem in my book.

Even if the explosion radius were to be buffed, it still wouldn't pose a significant threat to painted battleships, much less cruisers, while ensuring full dps application to other dreads. Do remember that dread DPS is often a critical factor in breaking through the reps of armor T3 fleets.

Edit: Can we please also get a look at missile HP? If phoenixes are going to become usable in fleets, you can be sure someone will remember how to setup firewalls. No other dread can have it's damage negated by a few well-placed battleships, that shouldn't be true for the phoenix either.

Good stuff.

Now lets see this treatment applied to the Revelation

cool now fix the rev and all dreads will be squared away for the next 10 years

also increase the sig on FW bunkers. for the same reason as pos sigs

I, too, ran some numbers, and came up with mixed results.

For the purposes of the exercise, I assumed maximum skills from the Phoenix pilot, and a Loki booster for the armor carrier. Armor carriers are hanging around just under 3km sig radius, which with loki boosts, goes down just below 2km. I found that, with the damage increase factored in, that you do ~18% greater damage to stationary armor carriers with explosive, thermal, and EM torpedoes. Kinetic torpedoes now deal ~5% less.

I'm uncertain if ship scanners work on capitals in triage/siege, but if so, this turns out to be a significant buff as the phoenixes can alter damage profile.

Cruise missiles deal full damage with even poor missile skills to these targets, so this is a straight buff in capital to capital engagements. Even after the explosion radius nerf, the base radius goes to 1950m. GMP 1 should bring you below Loki boosted radii.

TL;DR: Kinetic torps got worse in some situations, other damages got better. You need good missile skills to apply it all. What are you doing in a torpedo capital if your missile skills suck?

Thoughts?

not bad.

I agree with the suggestion of a few other posters. Make triage/siege and even bastion give a sig radius penalty increase. It makes sense with other mechanics in the game such as the added mass or shield extenders giving a sig penalty. A Dread should always be able to apply full damage to another dread in siege. It just does not make sense not to. Making siege/traige give a sig penalty also makes it not able to blap subs and if you are going crazy with a marauder you should be killable by a missile dread. The Moros is great for these things already. I think a sig penalty for siege modules of all types would damn near fix all the issues short of smarties for capital missiles. Other posters have done the fancy maths. Looks solid.