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[Kronos] Phoenix and Citadel Missiles

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Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#41 - 2014-05-07 17:15:34 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I suspect the people that think this is a major buff don't use phoenixes and are assuming only a cruel god would nerf them at this point.

Right now the biggest weakness they have is that they need 2 rapiers on grid to so much as touch battleships. Now carriers sig tank them. There was always a running joke of carriers speed tanking them but they almost never did. Now we need carriers to light micros to hit them for full damage which I'd call way worse.


And when capitals are rebalanced (ie next) you don't suppose that carriers won't get a sig increase? Is it also too much to ask that a phoenix equip 1 target painter like most normal missile boats?

A web is substantial its true but a tp reaches further and is more consistent. Perhaps we will see triage and siege modes grant extra sig as well therefore pushing any cap that wishes to retaliate against the sieged phoenix into a position where it is taking more damage?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-05-07 17:15:38 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Querns wrote:

So, you don't know if it does or not. Thanks for sharing.

It doesn't: 2k is current max, 3k is new.

Brain engaged.

Is this back calculated from the flippant comment's vignette about the situation or is it a result of actually knowing? It's entirely possible that the increase in POS module signature radiuses was performed without taking skills into account. It's not a very good indicator of reality.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Angry Mustache
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2014-05-07 17:16:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Angry Mustache
GMP does affect citadel torps, so at GMP V, citadel torps will have 2250 radius, which is larger than most linked armor caps (shield caps get hit for full damage).

With 52.5 explosion velocity, they won't get speed tanked too badly by moving caps, the target speed/exp velocity ratio against a moving carrier drops from ~2.5 to 1.5 (other than the nid).

In practice this should be about 13 - 17% more DPS against moving caps. which is not all that impressive when you think about it, moving carriers are still going to speedtank these things, you'll still need to paint carriers to hit them for full damage.

Edit, my initial math was off, the proper DPS boost is 13% against loki linked carriers at full speed, not 30-50.

An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#44 - 2014-05-07 17:18:33 UTC
Querns wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Querns wrote:

So, you don't know if it does or not. Thanks for sharing.

It doesn't: 2k is current max, 3k is new.

Brain engaged.

Is this back calculated from the flippant comment's vignette about the situation or is it a result of actually knowing? It's entirely possible that the increase in POS module signature radiuses was performed without taking skills into account. It's not a very good indicator of reality.


so you're saying ccp are either increasing pos sig radii for no reason

OR

ccp are nerfing pheonix damage to stationary sieged dreads into the ground

i'm glad we agree on one thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#45 - 2014-05-07 17:19:59 UTC
Querns wrote:

Is this back calculated from the flippant comment's vignette about the situation or is it a result of actually knowing? It's entirely possible that the increase in POS module signature radiuses was performed without taking skills into account. It's not a very good indicator of reality.

Those are the numbers with skills, go check; the person calling you dumb is infact correct.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2014-05-07 17:21:57 UTC
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-05-07 17:23:06 UTC
Angry Mustache wrote:
GMP does affect citadel torps, so at GMP V, citadel torps will have 2250 radius, which is larger than most linked armor caps (shield caps get hit for full damage).

With 52.5 explosion velocity, they won't get speed tanked too badly by moving caps, the target speed/exp velocity ratio against a moving carrier drops from ~2.5 to 1.5 (other than the nid).

In practice this should be about 30-50% more DPS against moving caps.

Thank you for proving that I am not crazy. :V

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Capqu
Half Empty
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#48 - 2014-05-07 17:24:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.


noone said otherwise

what we're talking about is that you increased pos mods to 3k so they'd get hit for decent damage, and yet sieged dreads sit sub 2k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-05-07 17:24:44 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Querns wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Querns wrote:

So, you don't know if it does or not. Thanks for sharing.

It doesn't: 2k is current max, 3k is new.

Brain engaged.

Is this back calculated from the flippant comment's vignette about the situation or is it a result of actually knowing? It's entirely possible that the increase in POS module signature radiuses was performed without taking skills into account. It's not a very good indicator of reality.


so you're saying ccp are either increasing pos sig radii for no reason

OR

ccp are nerfing pheonix damage to stationary sieged dreads into the ground

i'm glad we agree on one thing

It's probably just being done so that if you have GMP at zero, you aren't at a disadvantage for shooting stationary structures, since missiles still enjoy damage reduction if the thing you are shooting is smaller than the explosion radius of the missile you are firing, regardless of whether it moves or not.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#50 - 2014-05-07 17:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.



so fozzie just curious why chose now too do this?

also when are we getting missiles added to TD/TC/TE's?
and presumably HAMS/rocket nerfs?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#51 - 2014-05-07 17:25:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.

Unless UI is lying to me (which is very well may) it doesn't right now.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#52 - 2014-05-07 17:26:58 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Cruises by 38%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 14%.
We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Torps by 75%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 50%.

One side effect of such significant changes is that the Torps would start doing reduced damage to starbase modules and to small towers themselves. So we're increasing the sig radius of all starbase structures that sit outside the shields from 2000 to 3000, small towers from 2000 to 4000 and medium towers from 4000 to 5000.

Let me know what you think.


First off, by Nerfing the Explosion radius, you me your increasing the value (larger radius)?

Stat || Current (No Skills) || Post (no skills)
Nova torp
Flight : 15s || 7.5s
Velocity: 1750m/s || 3500ms
Radius: 2000m || 3000m
Ex. Vel.: 20m/s || 35m/s

Nova Cruise
Flight : 20s || 15s
Velocity: 4250m/s || ~5700m/s
Radius: 1750m || 2000m
Ex. Vel.: 29m/s || 40m/s
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2014-05-07 17:27:13 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.

Unless UI is lying to me (which is very well may) it doesn't right now.


I won't rule out a UI bug. If so please file a bug report and we'll get our best people on it.

That being said, GMP definitely applies to all missiles, including Citadel Missiles.

We increased the signature of structures by more than was really necessary since there was no significant downside to them being really big and we might as well throw a bone to the people who want to fly a Phoenix without training GMP to 1.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Capqu
Half Empty
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#54 - 2014-05-07 17:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
Querns wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Querns wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Querns wrote:

So, you don't know if it does or not. Thanks for sharing.

It doesn't: 2k is current max, 3k is new.

Brain engaged.

Is this back calculated from the flippant comment's vignette about the situation or is it a result of actually knowing? It's entirely possible that the increase in POS module signature radiuses was performed without taking skills into account. It's not a very good indicator of reality.


so you're saying ccp are either increasing pos sig radii for no reason

OR

ccp are nerfing pheonix damage to stationary sieged dreads into the ground

i'm glad we agree on one thing

It's probably just being done so that if you have GMP at zero, you aren't at a disadvantage for shooting stationary structures, since missiles still enjoy damage reduction if the thing you are shooting is smaller than the explosion radius of the missile you are firing, regardless of whether it moves or not.



that's quite the stretch you must admit

edit: looks like you were either right or fozzie saw what you said and decided it fit the bill
66% sized topes etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-05-07 17:27:48 UTC
Capqu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.


noone said otherwise

what we're talking about is that you increased pos mods to 3k so they'd get hit for decent damage, and yet sieged dreads sit sub 2k

They only sit sub 2k if they have a ragnarok passing bonuses in fleet.

I mean, if you want to bring a ragnarok with you on every single pos shot that you do on the off chance that a phoenix fleet shows up, so you can take 90% of the damage you would otherwise just by dint of your ragnarok bonuses, then I'd say go hog wild.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-05-07 17:28:36 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Querns wrote:

It's probably just being done so that if you have GMP at zero, you aren't at a disadvantage for shooting stationary structures, since missiles still enjoy damage reduction if the thing you are shooting is smaller than the explosion radius of the missile you are firing, regardless of whether it moves or not.



that's quite the stretch you must admit

Read the post above yours. :V

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#57 - 2014-05-07 17:29:57 UTC
Querns wrote:
Capqu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Guided Missile Precision does indeed apply to all Citadel Missiles.

Settle down kids.


noone said otherwise

what we're talking about is that you increased pos mods to 3k so they'd get hit for decent damage, and yet sieged dreads sit sub 2k

They only sit sub 2k if they have a ragnarok passing bonuses in fleet.

I mean, if you want to bring a ragnarok with you on every single pos shot that you do on the off chance that a phoenix fleet shows up, so you can take 90% of the damage you would otherwise just by dint of your ragnarok bonuses, then I'd say go hog wild.


ok, around 2k with normal boosts my bad

doesnt change anything about what i said other than the number being like 5% higher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-05-07 17:30:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I won't rule out a UI bug. If so please file a bug report and we'll get our best people on it.

On an unrelated, extremely low priority note, perhaps the name of this skill could be changed to "Missile Precision" or something that doesn't have "Guided" in the name? Something to toss on the backlog, I would think.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#59 - 2014-05-07 17:30:42 UTC
Querns wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Querns wrote:

It's probably just being done so that if you have GMP at zero, you aren't at a disadvantage for shooting stationary structures, since missiles still enjoy damage reduction if the thing you are shooting is smaller than the explosion radius of the missile you are firing, regardless of whether it moves or not.



that's quite the stretch you must admit

Read the post above yours. :V


yea i edited, i seriously doubt thats actually the reason though but im prepared to agree its a possibility

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2014-05-07 17:30:50 UTC
Capqu wrote:


that's quite the stretch you must admit

edit: looks like you were either right or fozzie saw what you said and decided it fit the bill
66% sized topes etc


You think I secretly went back in time and made GMP apply to Citadel Missiles back in Retribution just to make you look bad? Lol

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie