Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Funny, I was expecting this to be a general rebalance of Titan jump portals. I'm a bit confused by this.

If you want to limit power projection you should probably bring the Titan's jump portal in line with other capital ship jump drives.

First the jump portal needs to be brought in line in terms of it's capability to jump ships with great mass more efficiently than using their own jump drives.

Rhea (Jump Calibration 4 + Jump Fuel Conservation 4+ Jump Freighter 4)

808,148.8 kg per 1 isotope per light year

Jump Portal Generator (Jump Fuel Conservation 4)

1,666,666.6 kg per 1 isotope per light year

See that ^^^ not cool!

Don't even get me started on effective volume transported per light year. Okay I will. Let's take the case of using a regular freighter with a jump portal generator versus a jump freighter's own hauling capacity using it's own jump drive.

Charon:

785000 m3 cago hold

Rhea (Jump Freighter 4):

282600 m3 cargo hold

Charon through Jump Portal(Jump Fuel Conservation 4):

1362.8 m3 per 1 isotope per light year

Rhea (Jump Calibration 4 + Jump Fuel Conservation 4+ Jump Freighter 4):

237.9 m3 per 1 isotope per light year

As you can see it's more efficient to use a Titan's jump portal with freighters than it is to just use Jump Freighters.

Sure, you could increase the need for all Jump Drives and Jump Portals by 50%, but why don't you tackle this first?

You could at least bring it down to the level of all the Capital ship jump drives. And of course if you wanted a real nerf you could bring it down to Black Ops levels of fuel consumption. Hell, make it lower so that Black Ops are more efficient than Titan's at using jump portals.

Whoops, forgot a useful source I was using:

Useful Source

Increase fuel bay too please.

Finding Fuel to go back home will be more difficult.

Edit: And find and Ban BOTs

Why would you do that on station?

I started to research the effect of rising fuel prices on an economy & the effects can be staggering & quite far reaching.

This is one of the many topics on the internet that I found Rising fuel price effects on an economy

My concern is that 50% is such a massive fuel price hike that it has a serious risk of destabilizing the Eve economy. Manufacturing is one of the core hinge pins in the stability of any economy and frankly this change, as echoed by many, is ill thought out and potentially very damaging.

Any price increases should be very carefully applied and monitored- 50% increase is as much thought out as playing sticking the tail on a donkey blind folded and hoping you got it in the right place.

Seems CCP wants everyone back in HS as jumping is going to become too expensive for the smaller groups. For me to light a cover cyno and jump a sin in to a quite upgraded system to ninja their anoms is no longer going to be worth the effort.
Also people running lvl5's in carriers are going to take a knock in income.
It also doesn't encourage production in LS as you eating in to already thin profits for jumping your resources to the LS system to take advantage of the free slots.

CCP obviously aren't economists or this would never have gone past the "idea" stage.
There is never going to be enough capital ship movements to consume the excess topes if people just start pulling down pos's. Which is really not likely to happen the way CCP predicts - Most of the existing pos owners will adapt to the changes by adding compression and processing mods - New pos's will go up for compression and refining mods. The removal of standing requirements will see pos's go up and down as the need arises (mobile mining gangs and the like)
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If Devs predictions are right;
1 large pos uses 385k isotopes per week, if as CCP has predicted and hundreds of Pos's are removed due to their changes to industry then it is those who live in Nulsec will pay the cost for the oversupply of Isotopes created by CCP.
If on the other hand isotope prices take a dive due to oversupply - The mining industry takes a massive hit on income, making it once again less desirable as a profession.
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Increasing the cost to move things via JF directly impacts on players living in Nul. Most JF services charge either directly to customer or by adding it to the items they put on the market.
Industry in Nulsec will never and can never produce enough to keep up with supply / demand and even if it could, there is still a 50% CCP surcharge to be added to the cost of every item sold.

Nulsec is not like Empire where you just fly on over to your local trade hub and pick up what you need, it is vast often unprotected space where you may need to go through numerous jump bridges and gates to get to the nearest blue station to buy what you need.
Whether produced in Nulsec or brought from Jita, everything needs to be moved by JF at some point - CCP just put a 50% fuel surcharge on EVERY item in game for those living in Nulsec. (If the American president added a 50% tax to fuel for all heavy haulers, he would soon find himself out of a job)
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CCP just added a massive nerf to Nulsec Pvp - Smaller groups will be forced to spend more time doing Pve to pay for everything. While those with isk (nulblocks) have little to worry about; - as long as shooting miners and anom runners is all you want to do.
Yes it is fun going into someones renter space and shooting up a bunch of indy ships and shiny Pve boats but if it is to become the main focus of nulsec Pvp due to upcoming indy changes - the fun factor will soon diminish along with the amount of people you have to go shoot at.


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CCP states they want Nulsec industry to grow and be more valuable, then nerf it by adding to the cost of producing anything in Nulsec..
Hint - You might want to rethink your strategy or a least better define your goal and how it can be achieved.

It is true that larger alliances with good logistics and people able to mine / product directly in low/null sec will feel less this change than lone guys that have to buy everything in JITA and transport it into low sec.

I hope the tech 2 indus will be able to help for that.
In fact transport ships with large cargo and able to pass trough gate camps is a necesity. Transport ship should pop 50km fom gates when they jump... ;-)

Can we get a larger cargo bay on blops rolled into this to help them adapt to the increased consumption? Long overdue imo, especially given that some blops see less use than others due to cargo limitations. They should all have at least 1k base cargo.

This change overestimate the affect the slots changes will have on POS usage. The majority of towers are in nullsec, and the majority of those towers are used for moon material extraction and reactions. Very few use them for manufacturing, and labs are the exception and not the rule. You will definitely see less towers in empire; but increasing the cost of running them is certainly not going to cause more people to set them up.

Its a free market economy, leave the players to deal with the relative prices of things. Every time you get involved in the economy (think drone mineral nerf, etc) you cause ramifications that you aren't considering (the major imbalance it created on nullsec vs highsec ore isk/hour ratios, which you later patched by buffing nullsec ores) because the game is too complex to see all ends. A preemptive move on something that might not happen isn't going to help. Introduce the fuel change in a later patch - take a look and see what happens with the tope market after the slot changes first.


In the mean time, market speculation is driving tope prices sky high. Youll have to wait a couple months for the reserves to dwindle before you can look closely at it.

Moving goods in JF will be cheaper , if this JF will cargo expanding rigs.
Take into consideration that when you put T2 Rigs , it can go beyond 500k m3 from the current 350k3.

What more all super capitals should have fuel consumption increased , and based on their mass
Currently :
(all V)
Thanathos / Nyx / Erberus jumping 1Ly consumes around 500 isotopes.

Their base mass is :
Thanathos: 1,163,250,000 kg ; ~0.43 isotope per 1000t/LY
Nyx: 1,615,625,000 kg ; ~0.31 isotope per 1000t/LY
Erebus: 2,379,370,000 kg ; ~0.21 isotope per tone/LY

So the bigger ship the less isotopes needed to move it.

If we just assume that we keep result from thanathos and scale it up for this 1 lY:
Then ships will burn:
Nyx: ~694 isotopers
Erebus: ~1023 isotopes

Still from my perspective, the bigger ship, the more fuel it should use so lets use safely 20% more of fuel consumption based on class, and rounding it down to keep calculation simple:

Carriers/dreads : ~ 500 isotopes per LY
Motherships : ~ 800 isotopes per LY
Titans : ~ 1400 isotopes per LY

This is more realistic, the bigger ship, the bigger mass - the more fuel you have to use it to move id across the space.

Now lets apply 50% more fuel

Carriers/dreads : ~ 750 isotopes per LY
Motherships : ~ 1200 isotopes per LY
Titans : ~ 2100 isotopes per LY

Of course in case of the Supercarriers and titans , small tweak to fuel bays will be needed.

This way isotopes will be burned, and we will not have supercapital fleets roaming from one edge of the eve to another , few times a day.