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WH K162 Spawn Question
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BraveLittleDildo
Dark Star Safari Logistics
#1 - 2014-05-07 01:07:09 UTC
I thought I knew the answer but I've recently heard conflicting answers (and have no realistic way of verifying it myself) and figured someone here would know:

Do K162 exits for statics spawn as soon as the entrance wormhole spawns, or do the K162s only spawn when a player warps to the grid with the entrance wormhole, or do they only spawn when a player actually goes through the static entrance?

Example: Bob lives in a C1 with a HS static. After a few days of nobody logging in/out or transiting the system, Bob logs in after down time and finds only one signature on scan, presumably the static. He has not warped to the signature. At this point, has the exit K162 spawned?

Presumably the mechanics are not unique to statics, and wandering WHs behave the same way. Maybe!
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-05-07 01:09:46 UTC
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
Triksterism
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-05-07 01:50:03 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



I find this to be hearsay at best. I have experienced (on multiple occasions) a K162 appearing in our home system with no WH connections in it whatsoever (other than the static - our system), and we monitored the life cycle timer at the predicted 16 hours. So to honestly answer this question you will need a Dev to fess up on how they are actually coded to spawn. Goodluck with that.

General rule of thumb, assume all wormholes are connected regardless of if you have warped to them or not as someone else cloaked up in your system that is unaffiliated may do so at any time.
StarConquer212
Nothing Comes To Mind
Snuffed Out
#4 - 2014-05-07 01:50:48 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



NO one really knows cause we can't prove it 100%, but that's what most believe and what things support.


I personally like to think wormhole spawn rates and who you connect to are similar to a ugly old woman sitting around a boiling pot, mumbling things under her breath wile dumping random things off dusty shelves into the "brew" to determine how good your next chain will be.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-05-07 02:06:40 UTC
Triksterism wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



I find this to be hearsay at best. I have experienced (on multiple occasions) a K162 appearing in our home system with no WH connections in it whatsoever (other than the static - our system), and we monitored the life cycle timer at the predicted 16 hours. So to honestly answer this question you will need a Dev to fess up on how they are actually coded to spawn. Goodluck with that.


I'm sorry, but having read your explanation above mutliple times It simply doesn't make sense in terms of disproving the common conception.

It has been studied quite extensively by players (including myself) and while it cannot be 100% proven it is pretty clear that the explained mechanic of a k162 spawning only when the other side is warped to is the most likely mechanic.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-07 02:19:26 UTC
K162s span when you initiate warp to the other side of the WH. Move along.

There is no Bob.

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Triksterism
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-05-07 05:41:26 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Triksterism wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



I find this to be hearsay at best. I have experienced (on multiple occasions) a K162 appearing in our home system with no WH connections in it whatsoever (other than the static - our system), and we monitored the life cycle timer at the predicted 16 hours. So to honestly answer this question you will need a Dev to fess up on how they are actually coded to spawn. Goodluck with that.


I'm sorry, but having read your explanation above mutliple times It simply doesn't make sense in terms of disproving the common conception.

It has been studied quite extensively by players (including myself) and while it cannot be 100% proven it is pretty clear that the explained mechanic of a k162 spawning only when the other side is warped to is the most likely mechanic.




I have made the relevant part bold and underlined. Unless you have actually coded the wormhole mechanic I can assume your theory can also be incorrect. It is safer to assume and procede with the thought process that a wormhole forms its k162 'exit' connections once the sig has spawned with or without someone warping to it. As far as you or anyone knows, someone is in your hole scanning your sigs and activating warp to your statics even when you are not. So regardless of how the mechanic actually works. . .

You know what, play the game how you want to. This is all theory crafting anyways. No point in this silly debate as it doesn't change the fact that WH life is best life.
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-05-07 05:47:45 UTC
Triksterism wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Triksterism wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



I find this to be hearsay at best. I have experienced (on multiple occasions) a K162 appearing in our home system with no WH connections in it whatsoever (other than the static - our system), and we monitored the life cycle timer at the predicted 16 hours. So to honestly answer this question you will need a Dev to fess up on how they are actually coded to spawn. Goodluck with that.


I'm sorry, but having read your explanation above mutliple times It simply doesn't make sense in terms of disproving the common conception.

It has been studied quite extensively by players (including myself) and while it cannot be 100% proven it is pretty clear that the explained mechanic of a k162 spawning only when the other side is warped to is the most likely mechanic.




I have made the relevant part bold and underlined. Unless you have actually coded the wormhole mechanic I can assume your theory can also be incorrect. It is safer to assume and procede with the thought process that a wormhole forms its k162 'exit' connections once the sig has spawned with or without someone warping to it. As far as you or anyone knows, someone is in your hole scanning your sigs and activating warp to your statics even when you are not. So regardless of how the mechanic actually works. . .

You know what, play the game how you want to. This is all theory crafting anyways. No point in this silly debate as it doesn't change the fact that WH life is best life.


Easiest way IMO to try to verify this...

Try and find a K162 WH sig on the test server from KSpace.

I can tell you it's a pain in the ass. I'll let you figure out why that is...

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#9 - 2014-05-07 05:51:39 UTC
I could have sworn this was proved back when jump API was on wormholes.
The k162 side won't ever spawn unless you actually land on grid or warp to it.
I live in a c4, if no one visits and spawns my wh, the static I scanned down will stay there for a while.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2014-05-07 05:57:54 UTC
The wormhole, not just the K162 side, only spawns when a warp is initiated to the signature, just like all signature-based entities in the game.

This has been proven several times by various people using the following method which is based on the wh lifetime timer- close all wormholes, scan down the static. If nobody warps to the sig, the static signature remains in the same spot longer than the wh lifetime.

Furthermore, there has never been a reported and confirmed event where someone has scanned down the wormhole from the K162 side and entered through your unwarped static. If the K162 would exist before the wh has spawned, this would be a regular event in w-space.

tl,dr; when you initiate warp, and only then, the wormhole is created on both sides and the timer starts running.

Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#11 - 2014-05-07 06:02:22 UTC
Derath, the times I've seen that happen on a new k162 from an empty system are:
scouts getting out or most likely, some1 got trapped while rolling.

I've ran into quite a few people who like to roll c4's looking for pve. Especially guys from a c2/c4 for example anomalous existence.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-05-07 17:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
Triksterism wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



I find this to be hearsay at best. I have experienced (on multiple occasions) a K162 appearing in our home system with no WH connections in it whatsoever (other than the static - our system), and we monitored the life cycle timer at the predicted 16 hours. So to honestly answer this question you will need a Dev to fess up on how they are actually coded to spawn. Goodluck with that.

General rule of thumb, assume all wormholes are connected regardless of if you have warped to them or not as someone else cloaked up in your system that is unaffiliated may do so at any time.


I think there is a misunderstanding here - in my experience Sith1's explanation is very close to the observed reality of wormholes.

However Triks is thinking of something else.

So long as you don't warp to your a wormhole it will not generate a K162 on the other side.

However, simply because you don't warp to your static, does not mean that a K162 cannot appear in your system.

Example:

We have two WH systems - J1111 and J2222

Both J1111 and J2222 have only one sig - the static WH which leads to lowsec, and has just spawned. We call these WHs alpha and beta respectively

Randomly, sig appears in J2222. This is WH gamma which leads from J2222 to J1111

So long as no one initiates warp in J2222 to WH gamma the situation is like this:

J1111 - WH Alpha

J2222 - WH Beta, WH Gamma

Now lets say someone in J2222 initiates warp to WH Gamma - this will trigger the creation of K162-gamma in J1111 so the situation will look like this:

J1111 - WH Alpha, WH K162-gamma
J2222 - WH Beta, WH Gamma.


So even though no one in J1111 ever warped to their static WH, a K162 appeared in that system. Because the appearance of K162 depends on what happens on the other side of the hole.

Note that this has interesting implications - if a K162 appears in your WH system it means (infallibly in my experience) that someone has come knocking on your door.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#13 - 2014-05-07 20:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
Triksterism wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
K162 exits only spawn when someone initiates warp to the wormhole (assuming a brand new that has just spawned)



I find this to be hearsay at best. I have experienced (on multiple occasions) a K162 appearing in our home system with no WH connections in it whatsoever (other than the static - our system), and we monitored the life cycle timer at the predicted 16 hours. So to honestly answer this question you will need a Dev to fess up on how they are actually coded to spawn. Goodluck with that.

General rule of thumb, assume all wormholes are connected regardless of if you have warped to them or not as someone else cloaked up in your system that is unaffiliated may do so at any time.


M8 you're wrong here. Trust me, if they did spawn without being warped to, I would have died many times over while farming. Multiple times I have collapsed my static, farmed for an hour or two in my hole, and then checked out my new static, and found that my static was a hole where active people were living, VoC, SSC, whatever, who would have definitely ganked me, or at least tried to mess with me if the K162 had been spawned on their side.

I know 100% that the K162 doesn't spawn unless you initiate warp to the static.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-05-07 20:57:31 UTC
The easiest way to see this is on the test servers.
Since hardly anyone scans, there is no wormhole to be found .
And this is since the K162ones only spawn when some one warps to the hole on the other side.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#15 - 2014-05-08 11:26:22 UTC
Somebody really needs to give a medal to whoever it was that designed the WH mechanics. Such technical beauty and simplicity that feeds so much of this kind of discussions (which is real exploration content) for so long is truly a sign of a successful design.

I believe the WH mechanics might be the best I've ever seen. Five years (!) after its introduction people are still "exploring" how it works. In some sense its still "unknown". Props to CCP.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#16 - 2014-05-08 13:40:18 UTC
If you want to check it, try this.

Time how long a jump takes the first time you jump a fresh WH compared to one already opened. The grid and everything on it (The system chosen, it's location in the system, the WH itself, the Anomaly that's scanned) on the K162 side has to be created at some point and doing that at the same time as the Static side makes sense. If it's created upon jump then that jump should be longer.

Whether that's measurably longer for you is a different question of course.