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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2161 - 2014-05-06 21:03:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we get a special ability to the Rattlesnake (not unlike the warp speed bonus the Machariel received) that reduces the bandwidth for Geckos from 50 to 25mbit?

I am hoping that is his intention too otherwise The current post contradicts his statements at fanfest.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2162 - 2014-05-06 21:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I have just listened to the live stream and CCP rise has just said that "The Effective number of drones that guristas can field will exceed almost any other ship in the game" . This was greeted with loud cheers, as that's a good announcement ? right ?

Did he say "Guristas" or "Rattlesnake"? From what I remember (and I could certainly be off) is that it was a general statement attributed to the Guristas. Regardless, this is definitely the case for the Worm and Gila - and with the Gecko this also holds true for the Rattlesnake. Is this splitting hairs on the Rattlesnake? Hard to say...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2163 - 2014-05-06 21:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I have just listened to the live stream and CCP rise has just said that "The Effective number of drones that guristas can field will exceed almost any other ship in the game" . This was greeted with loud cheers, as that's a good announcement ? right ?

Did he say "Guristas" or "Rattlesnake"? From what I remember (and I could certainly be off) is that it was a general statement attributed to the Guristas. Regardless, this is definitely the case for the Worm and Gila - and with the Gecko this also holds true for the Rattlesnake. Is this splitting hairs on the Rattlesnake? Hard to say...


He was discussing it as part of describing the special feature of the Guristas ships, with the rattlesnake on screen at the time.
in exactly the same way he had just discussed the other pirate races special feature. He was also presenting it as a class wide "good thing". Pretty Impossible to take it any other way than that. He specified that It is the Drones that are the Guristas special feature as most believed all along.

Which is why I have asked him for confirmation.

CCP needs to make his own statement, there have been too many speaking for him here. They cannot both be right.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2164 - 2014-05-06 21:16:24 UTC
I'm just going to throw this out there for those still bemoaning the bonus loss to light and medium drones. With the introduction of the Gecko, at least from a PvE standpoint it makes a lot of sense to run Drone Durability rigs. This actually increases hit points by 80% and easily offsets the previous 50% bonus. As for damage, while there's not too much one can do to offset this - but with a higher rate of survivability they will be able to deliver more damage before having to be recalled.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2165 - 2014-05-06 21:17:42 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Which is why I have asked him for confirmation. CCP needs to make his own statement, there have been too many speaking for him here. They cannot both be right.

The devs have been AWOL from this thread for weeks, so don't get your hopes up...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2166 - 2014-05-06 21:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm just going to throw this out there for those still bemoaning the bonus loss to light and medium drones. With the introduction of the Gecko, at least from a PvE standpoint it makes a lot of sense to run Drone Durability rigs. This actually increases hit points by 80% and easily offsets the previous 50% bonus. As for damage, while there's not too much one can do to offset this - but with a higher rate of survivability they will be able to deliver more damage before having to be recalled.



That is a good suggestion, naturally that will be balanced out elsewhere in the fittings as the drawback for drone rigs is quite severe.
Once CCP rise has confirmed what we are actually getting, and It appears on SisI I think that might be my first test example.

If we do get for exmaple 2 geckos, then a lot of other issues fade into the background.
With current heavies, tracking and orbit speed still remains an issue. for the Drones.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2167 - 2014-05-06 21:20:50 UTC
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?

As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2168 - 2014-05-06 21:21:18 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm just going to throw this out there for those still bemoaning the bonus loss to light and medium drones. With the introduction of the Gecko, at least from a PvE standpoint it makes a lot of sense to run Drone Durability rigs. This actually increases hit points by 80% and easily offsets the previous 50% bonus. As for damage, while there's not too much one can do to offset this - but with a higher rate of survivability they will be able to deliver more damage before having to be recalled.
I'm still not sold on this considering the limited fittings to try to make both systems work. Maybe that's where RHML's shine in their lack of need for rigors to help apply damage, though range augmentation may be desirable. Either way, in PvE a Gecko on an RS should be a very hard target and used properly should have little risk of going down.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2169 - 2014-05-06 21:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
afkalt wrote:
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?
As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.

I'd be prepared to lose the launchers and missile bonus, along with a minor slot adjustment (-2h, +1m, +1l).

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
'm still not sold on this considering the limited fittings to try to make both systems work. Maybe that's where RHML's shine in their lack of need for rigors to help apply damage, though range augmentation may be desirable. Either way, in PvE a Gecko on an RS should be a very hard target and used properly should have little risk of going down.

That's why I'd rather see the Rattlesnake as a dedicated drone boat. Barring that, rapid heavy missile launchers are really the only option. I look at them more for "pest control" than anything else.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2170 - 2014-05-06 21:24:25 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Which is why I have asked him for confirmation. CCP needs to make his own statement, there have been too many speaking for him here. They cannot both be right.

The devs have been AWOL from this thread for weeks, so don't get your hopes up...


I am hoping, that now I have heard his own words out of his own mouth, that possibly He has been avoiding stepping on another unmade announcement and has been waiting to be able to.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2171 - 2014-05-06 21:25:28 UTC
More sane Smile

Although the idea of hinging an entire ship to a (currently) limited drone type is...a risky proposition.

I mean, if BPCs drop for it, then you can strike this concern and happy days, otherwise...the options are limited
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2172 - 2014-05-06 21:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?
As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.

I'd be prepared to lose the launchers and missile bonus, along with a minor slot adjustment (-2h, +1m, +1l).



Lets wait to hear what he says to clarify things. He clearly wants and has said that the Guristas are the drone guys. Their speciality. From his own mouth.

So maybe he just wants to build a good pirate ship.
Lets wait before we offer him nerfs.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2173 - 2014-05-06 21:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
afkalt wrote:
More sane Smile

Although the idea of hinging an entire ship to a (currently) limited drone type is...a risky proposition.

I mean, if BPCs drop for it, then you can strike this concern and happy days, otherwise...the options are limited



Who knows maybe you get geckos with the ship, or they get disabled and can be scooped up rather than destroyed.? Lets see what he says now.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2174 - 2014-05-06 21:28:18 UTC
afkalt wrote:
More sane Smile

Although the idea of hinging an entire ship to a (currently) limited drone type is...a risky proposition.

I mean, if BPCs drop for it, then you can strike this concern and happy days, otherwise...the options are limited


This was basically my thought. Short of a reliable (more importantly, repeatable) way to get Geckos, actually outright forcing the Rattlesnake to use them would be pretty crippling to the ship as a whole.

It's plenty fine without them, so long as heavy drones get rebalanced.

With them it's ten gallons of kicking ass in a nine gallon jug. Works out ok as is, if you ask me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2175 - 2014-05-06 21:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
OK here is the full stream, just up
Fanfest keynote

Very Very different to his original post here, This really needs updating soon now. Things must have moved on In CCP in the meantime.


Listen for yourselves.

" they ( the ships) will all get enormous bonuses To drone damage and HP". (his emphasis)

So the same effective damage as before on the rattlesnake really is not what they have just said in front of the whole of the eve community, live, on TV.

So hopefully clarification soon.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2176 - 2014-05-06 22:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
"they ( the ships) will all get enormous bonuses To drone damage and HP". (his emphasis)

Except (and not to place to much of a finer point on it)… they are. We all pretty much expected 2 drones on the Rattlesnake, and these will be the most powerful light, media, heavy and sentry drones in the game. Not trying to open a can of worms here, but barring any actual dev response - what kind of change or bonus were you hoping for?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2177 - 2014-05-06 22:06:26 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?
As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.

I'd be prepared to lose the launchers and missile bonus, along with a minor slot adjustment (-2h, +1m, +1l).

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
'm still not sold on this considering the limited fittings to try to make both systems work. Maybe that's where RHML's shine in their lack of need for rigors to help apply damage, though range augmentation may be desirable. Either way, in PvE a Gecko on an RS should be a very hard target and used properly should have little risk of going down.

That's why I'd rather see the Rattlesnake as a dedicated drone boat. Barring that, rapid heavy missile launchers are really the only option. I look at them more for "pest control" than anything else.
I'm inclined to agree on the one way or another philosophy. With the Mordu incoming we may well have drones be in the same place missiles were in not having a dedicated platform, at least at the BS level.

I'm just having a hard time thinking about how to make it both advantageous and flexible without ending up with another domi. The idea of dropping launchers and highs for lows/mids seems nice, but I'd want my bonused lights back in the trade since I'd be losing what was given to the missile side to compensate.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2178 - 2014-05-06 22:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I'm just having a hard time thinking about how to make it both advantageous and flexible without ending up with another domi. The idea of dropping launchers and highs for lows/mids seems nice, but I'd want my bonused lights back in the trade since I'd be losing what was given to the missile side to compensate.

Give it more bandwidth and let it use drone control units. Twisted
Also, we totally need a Guristas light and medium "Hero" drone.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2179 - 2014-05-06 22:22:43 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
"they ( the ships) will all get enormous bonuses To drone damage and HP". (his emphasis)

Except (and not to place to much of a finer point on it)… they are. We all pretty much expected 2 drones on the Rattlesnake, and these will be the most powerful light, media, heavy and sentry drones in the game. Not trying to open a can of worms here, but barring any actual dev response - what kind of change or bonus were you hoping for?



They are clearly stating that the gurista's special Pirate flavour is to have the strongest most powerful drones AND drone ships in the game in each class.

The Worm and The Gila achieve that promise. Now it is the Rattlesnakes turn to be delivered as promised. Not sure why you say Heavy and sentries are the most powerful hubcap drones in the game? they are not, they are exactly as powerful as before, especially as he was clearly talking about effective drones, they have exactly the same number of effective heavy and sentries as they do today. They are Going to BECOME. not they are already.
The gecko is quite another story, interesting to see his plan coming together there.

I will wait now to see what that entails, but I hope for a way that heavy drones will be effective across all target classes with more powerful heavy drone damage and application than any other Subcap in the game.

That could be two geckos, or two Heavies with replaced bonuses that reflect the words from their own mouth, that was stated AFTER this thread was started previous to official announcement.

He may have changed his mind since fanfest or he may not.
Time for him to speak up for himself and confirm or clarify.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2180 - 2014-05-06 22:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?
As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.

I'd be prepared to lose the launchers and missile bonus, along with a minor slot adjustment (-2h, +1m, +1l).

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
'm still not sold on this considering the limited fittings to try to make both systems work. Maybe that's where RHML's shine in their lack of need for rigors to help apply damage, though range augmentation may be desirable. Either way, in PvE a Gecko on an RS should be a very hard target and used properly should have little risk of going down.

That's why I'd rather see the Rattlesnake as a dedicated drone boat. Barring that, rapid heavy missile launchers are really the only option. I look at them more for "pest control" than anything else.
I'm inclined to agree on the one way or another philosophy. With the Mordu incoming we may well have drones be in the same place missiles were in not having a dedicated platform, at least at the BS level.

I'm just having a hard time thinking about how to make it both advantageous and flexible without ending up with another domi. The idea of dropping launchers and highs for lows/mids seems nice, but I'd want my bonused lights back in the trade since I'd be losing what was given to the missile side to compensate.



Well if Heavy drones were awesome you would boost those with every rig and module available.
Missiles?
Fit lights and be done with it. Why drop launchers, an option for those who like them.
well it is an option.
Hate drones? fit for cruise, heavy, torpedo, or whatever floats your boat and hope someone else kills the frigates.
two geckos? kill everything while grinning in a crazy manner.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE