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Indy Changes

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Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#21 - 2014-04-29 02:26:03 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Flex Carter wrote:
A little out of context but I thought this was kind of a funny quote from the latest Dev blog by CCP Greyscale.
Quote:
In the summer release, all base build costs will be increased by 11%. ME will then reduce build costs by 10% of that new base value, which brings us back to where we started.


WTF... why even make the damn change if it's going end up right back where we started.



Because now the algorithm isn't ******** anymore and this means research is much friendlier to people with an IQ like yours


Funny how you mention a ******** algorithm and my understanding of it... Does that put us in the same boat Einstein?
Marissia Trunball
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-29 03:03:05 UTC
I'm kinda curious if anyone knows where he got his numbers from for what current ME gives you a new ME of 10 (this is very important, since there's no point in researching anything past that number in the long run now). I threw a few attempts to replicate the numbers in a spreadsheet and couldn't. In terms of pure materials used (eg if it means that your blueprints will not use any more materials), any blueprint with an ME over 4 qualifies for a new ME of 10 (ME4 old system reduces your waste to 0.63%; anything under 1% will give you better results than ME9 in the new system). Changing it to percentage reduced from ME0 gives slightly different results, but still everything at ME7 (a 9.02% reduction in total materials from the post-waste amount) or higher would give you a new ME of 10.

Can anyone figure out what formula they used to calculate this? Or is it a mistake. In any case, it seems like BPOs with an ME / PE of 10 are going to become maxed, so there's no point in researching beyond 10 now. Good to know as I'm in the middle of researching some BPOs.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#23 - 2014-04-29 06:17:27 UTC
Marissia Trunball wrote:
I'm kinda curious if anyone knows where he got his numbers from for what current ME gives you a new ME of 10 (this is very important, since there's no point in researching anything past that number in the long run now). I threw a few attempts to replicate the numbers in a spreadsheet and couldn't. In terms of pure materials used (eg if it means that your blueprints will not use any more materials), any blueprint with an ME over 4 qualifies for a new ME of 10 (ME4 old system reduces your waste to 0.63%; anything under 1% will give you better results than ME9 in the new system). Changing it to percentage reduced from ME0 gives slightly different results, but still everything at ME7 (a 9.02% reduction in total materials from the post-waste amount) or higher would give you a new ME of 10.

Can anyone figure out what formula they used to calculate this? Or is it a mistake. In any case, it seems like BPOs with an ME / PE of 10 are going to become maxed, so there's no point in researching beyond 10 now. Good to know as I'm in the middle of researching some BPOs.



ME 4 doesn't reduce waste on blueprints to below 1%. On a 5% waste blueprint, it drops it to 1%. Most blueprints are 10% waste though.

On a 10% blueprint
ME 0: 10%
ME 1: 5%
ME 2: 3.33%
ME 3: 2.5%
ME 4: 2%
ME 5: 1.66%
ME 6: 1.42%
ME 7: 1.25%
ME 8: 1.11%
ME 9: 1%
ME 10: 0.91%

on a 5% blueprint, halve them all.

wastefactor/ 1+ ME


Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#24 - 2014-04-29 06:24:27 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You seen the most recent update? -5% material cost with POS.




Is there a source for this? Presumably some dev post buried deep into the comments threads?


Hopefully our dear Steve isn't pulling a masterful prank, or else I regret not voting higher for him.


Edit: Found it. This is a huge change. This patch will make me a rich man indeed.



Heh. When I talk about numbers, I try to be accurate. Mostly because it's lulling you all into a sense of security for my big score.


Ummm, I mean, because you can trust me.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#25 - 2014-05-06 18:29:35 UTC
Thank you all for your thoughts, inputs and discussion. Let's keep this going because we all know it's going to change big time, but depending on the direction I or anybody else takes, this remains to be seen. Again thanksBig smilePirate
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-05-06 18:45:38 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
After the announcement by CCP recently I decided to reserve judgement till after the changes goes into effect. How about anyone else?? What's your thoughts??Pirate



My thoughts?

EPIC FAIL!

The changes to research are likely to make newbs rage over how they have to research 10x as long to get a sub 1% waste BPO. And for what? Removal of complexity? That could have been achieved by converting ME to float and hiding it behind the UI.

As for adding complexity, the STUPID new cost scaling has that in DROVES. I can't believe they made it solar system based instead of facility based. And the discount for multiple facilities is insanely complex... needlessly so.

And infinite slots with no cost scaling per concurrent job per facility, so there is no reason to have more than one of a facility at a POS. 27 titans under construction concurrently at a single supercap ship assembly array? DUMB!!!



Good: Max refine at POS. Compression array. New UI

Indifferent: Cap on reprocess return, T2 mining frig (I guess it is good if you harvest gas), removal of compression BPs.

Bad: BPO in POS (corp theft risk), work teams... big and rich get larger and richer while little startup is crushed. Copy too expensive at "per run", while ME and TE so cheap no one will ever research at POS.

Horrid: Research changes (newb rage akin to T2 BPO inbound), infinite slots, overly complex cost scaling, removing the need for research POS takes away major reason to leave NPC corp.
Dr Myndbender Vyvorant
Myndbender Labs
Goslings
#27 - 2014-05-09 22:34:18 UTC
Wow, I thought I was on my way, I've have spent the countless hours training my Indy skills up grabbed BPOs and finally I have a c1 . The idea behind me venturing out on my own was to have the ability to start Industry jobs when ever I wanted, Use my scan skills and find Relics, Data, and Anomalies all I would need to do is farm out and Incorporate the PI and I should be able to run the POS from within the worm hole.

Being a solo player I am worried that I am not going to be in business for long, and all this preparation has been for nothing before I even got started. "Is the little guy Doomed"
Velicitia
XS Tech
#28 - 2014-05-09 23:07:50 UTC
Dr Myndbender Vyvorant wrote:
Wow, I thought I was on my way, I've have spent the countless hours training my Indy skills up grabbed BPOs and finally I have a c1 . The idea behind me venturing out on my own was to have the ability to start Industry jobs when ever I wanted, Use my scan skills and find Relics, Data, and Anomalies all I would need to do is farm out and Incorporate the PI and I should be able to run the POS from within the worm hole.

Being a solo player I am worried that I am not going to be in business for long, and all this preparation has been for nothing before I even got started. "Is the little guy Doomed"



nope -- you're a lot more mobile than say Steve Ronuken -- he's probably pretty entrenched in some system, and it would take him AGES to pull down his towers, get stuff moved, and then set it all back up again.


You on the other hand see that (for example) Rifters aren't selling at so great a margin anymore ... pick up, move 3 constellations over, and start going again (chasing the wave ... and eventually learning how to get just enough ahead of it to make bank).


(edit -- yes I can spell)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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