These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Should logistics be more accessible?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Alara IonStorm
#21 - 2011-12-02 20:08:51 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:

Lil Nippy wrote:
I think the most viable solution to this would be making it so that both T2 and T1 logi would be invulnerable to ECM.


This was a horrible post and you should feel horrible for posting it.

Not empty quoting.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#22 - 2011-12-02 20:09:09 UTC
Didn't read every reply, sorry.

The one and only problem with logi as far as people not selecting it is that you can't make money doing it in solo mode. Ergo everyone that starts the game that doesn't have a source of free ISK needs another 'profession' in the beginning.



internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Garbad theWeak
#23 - 2011-12-02 20:27:16 UTC
The problem is killmail whoring; the solution is to make you get on killmails if you are repping someone who deals damage.
Warzon3
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-12-02 20:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Warzon3
NO NO NO NO

They are accessible enough as it is now. You CAN fly a logi with logi 4 and crap skills if you know what you do and you can be succesfull at it.
Hell even the t1 logi's are usefull if you can just use your brain and come up with tactics to utulise there potential.

There is a reason I trained Logi V, Energy Emission V, Shield Emission V and Remote Armor Repair Systems V.
Because I wanted to be the best logi out there.

To achieve this I also trained ALL fitting skills to V and Skills like targetting.

I was an effective logi before I did all this but now I am the best possible logi possible.

This is the same with every single ship class you can fly in eve they really shine when you max out any skill related to them.

Dont keep dumbing down this game CCP should make it harder not easier.

Ow and fit ECCM it really works and stop KM whoring it will make you enjoy the game much more.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#25 - 2011-12-02 20:33:00 UTC
Lil Nippy wrote:
In most standard MMOs 'healers' or 'medics' are pretty standard and tend to make or break PvP combat. In EVE the equivalent for this PvP class would be logi, and outside of organized large scale null sec PvP logi is a semi rare in the universe.



Stopped reading here. In your opening statement you prove that you have literally no idea what you are talking about.
Alara IonStorm
#26 - 2011-12-02 20:33:27 UTC
Garbad theWeak wrote:
The problem is killmail whoring; the solution is to make you get on killmails if you are repping someone who deals damage.

Heh. Side effects include showing that you used a Logi Alt to beat that Megathon in your Rifter.

Throw in you getting the guy your repping's aggression timer so you can not "Chill" at 0 on a gate or in the Docking Radius expecting to dock or jump the second your tank gets low and it just might be the best damn thing to ever happen.

Twisted
Lil Nippy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-12-02 20:33:41 UTC
Warzon3 wrote:
NO NO NO NO

They are accessible enough as it is now. You CAN fly a logi with logi 4 and crap skills if you know what you do and you can be succesfull at it.
Hell even the t1 logi's are usefull if you can just use your brain and come up with tactics to utulise there potential.

There is a reason I trained Logi V, Energy Emission V, Shield Emission V and Remote Armor Repair Systems V.
Because I wanted to be the best logi out there.

To achieve this I also trained ALL fitting skills to V and Skills like targetting.

I was an effective logi before I did all this but now I am the best possible logi possible.

This is the same with every single ship class you can fly in eve they really shine when you max out any skill related to them.

Dont keep dumbing down this game CCP should make it harder not easier.


This post makes no sense...

So you trained all your skills to V so nobody else should be able to rep but you? What?

My suggestions have nothing to do with "dumbing down" anything.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#28 - 2011-12-02 20:36:09 UTC
Lil Nippy wrote:
Warzon3 wrote:
NO NO NO NO

They are accessible enough as it is now. You CAN fly a logi with logi 4 and crap skills if you know what you do and you can be succesfull at it.
Hell even the t1 logi's are usefull if you can just use your brain and come up with tactics to utulise there potential.

There is a reason I trained Logi V, Energy Emission V, Shield Emission V and Remote Armor Repair Systems V.
Because I wanted to be the best logi out there.

To achieve this I also trained ALL fitting skills to V and Skills like targetting.

I was an effective logi before I did all this but now I am the best possible logi possible.

This is the same with every single ship class you can fly in eve they really shine when you max out any skill related to them.

Dont keep dumbing down this game CCP should make it harder not easier.


This post makes no sense...

So you trained all your skills to V so nobody else should be able to rep but you? What?

My suggestions have nothing to do with "dumbing down" anything.


He said 'best' not 'only'. Also there are probably great holiday specials going on at literally any other MMO out there. I suggest you try them out.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2011-12-02 20:37:28 UTC
Warzon3 wrote:


There is a reason I trained Logi V, Energy Emission V, Shield Emission V and Remote Armor Repair Systems V.
Because I wanted to be the best logi out there.


So basically, being a space priest gives you Nocturnal Emissions V ?

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Warzon3
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-12-02 20:41:12 UTC
Lil Nippy wrote:
Warzon3 wrote:
NO NO NO NO

They are accessible enough as it is now. You CAN fly a logi with logi 4 and crap skills if you know what you do and you can be succesfull at it.
Hell even the t1 logi's are usefull if you can just use your brain and come up with tactics to utulise there potential.

There is a reason I trained Logi V, Energy Emission V, Shield Emission V and Remote Armor Repair Systems V.
Because I wanted to be the best logi out there.

To achieve this I also trained ALL fitting skills to V and Skills like targetting.

I was an effective logi before I did all this but now I am the best possible logi possible.

This is the same with every single ship class you can fly in eve they really shine when you max out any skill related to them.

Dont keep dumbing down this game CCP should make it harder not easier.


This post makes no sense...

So you trained all your skills to V so nobody else should be able to rep but you? What?

My suggestions have nothing to do with "dumbing down" anything.


No I trained it all to V to be usefull to my fleet in another way then 90% of the eve players.
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#31 - 2011-12-02 20:42:33 UTC
OP definitely has a point and it is a larger problem actually (not trying to derail) - the present state of the tiered ship system means most of the low-tier ships (e.g tormentor, executioner, augoror) are very underwhelming if not almost useless. All of them should be addressed, and making the support cruiser base hulls more useful would be a very good way to instantly make 4 relatively underwhelming ships more useful again.

Buffing them into cheaper and less ineffective logistics (fewer slots, no t2 resists and weaker bonuses) would indeed get more people to try out what it's like to be a logistics pilot and maybe convince some of them to specialize later <3

Alara IonStorm wrote:
They are terrible ships.

can't entirely agree with this though, from experience i can say that osprey gangs are pretty good and exequror gangs are bearable. the other two.. yeah :/ not very much.

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Lil Nippy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-12-02 20:44:28 UTC
Ottersmacker wrote:
OP definitely has a point and it is a larger problem actually (not trying to derail) - the present state of the tiered ship system means most of the low-tier ships (e.g tormentor, executioner, augoror) are very underwhelming if not almost useless. All of them should be addressed, and making the support cruiser base hulls more useful would be a very good way to instantly make 4 relatively underwhelming ships more useful again.

Buffing them into cheaper and less ineffective logistics (fewer slots, no t2 resists and weaker bonuses) would indeed get more people to try out what it's like to be a logistics pilot and maybe convince some of them to specialize later <3

Alara IonStorm wrote:
They are terrible ships.

can't entirely agree with this though, from experience i can say that osprey gangs are pretty good and exequror gangs are bearable. the other two.. yeah :/ not very much.


WOW, the first semi coherent intelligent post in this whole topic. Thanks ottersmacker, finally some good feedback from a good pilot.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#33 - 2011-12-02 20:45:37 UTC
No
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2011-12-02 20:48:32 UTC
Ottersmacker wrote:
OP definitely has a point and it is a larger problem actually (not trying to derail) - the present state of the tiered ship system means most of the low-tier ships (e.g tormentor, executioner, augoror) are very underwhelming if not almost useless.
The problem is that the point he has isn't the point he's making…
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-02 20:49:58 UTC
There's a lot of barriers to entry for logi pilots, but the easiest one to fix is the Tech 1 logi cruisers.
It'd be so much better if these were either buffed considerably, or a midpoint variant was introduced.
The current progression is just weird. Either you go from the laughably ineffective 3mill ISK Osprey to the godlike 128m ISK Basilisk(or whoever you think has the best logis). Or you take a BIIIG detour into something like a battleship repper.

The other stuff is way harder to fix, even if you wanted to. One big thing being that the consequences of having a noob "healer" is way harsher here than in other games. I don't even know what new logis pilots would practice on.

On the other hand, a cool thing about logis in Eve is that you don't need them for 100% of everything. When the MMO genre is looking for clever ways to avoid the "Holy Trinity", Eve never really had it to start with, and I don't think it should be in a rush to do so.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2011-12-02 20:53:23 UTC
T2 logi need mild nerf, T1 logi need considerable buff
Amsterdam Conversations
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-12-02 20:58:30 UTC
God no, this game doesn't need even more logis.

EVE got some more ******** since everyone and their mom started using logistics.

Back then and especially today in small gangs, logistics were used as support to fight bigger fleets that would just chew through a small gang rapidly. But 5 logis in a big gang can mean invincible ships (and it generally means invincible frigates) when fighting gangs with less DPS and size.

I like Logis, I used them a lot, didn't use them a lot any more in the last year since our fleets are generally smaller than 10 people, where you need DPS instead of tank to break enemy EHP and logistics/ECM.

I really really enjoy them when I fly them, but I'm starting to get the impression that they should get somewhat of a stacking nerf.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2011-12-02 21:03:55 UTC
Takseen wrote:

On the other hand, a cool thing about logis in Eve is that you don't need them for 100% of everything. When the MMO genre is looking for clever ways to avoid the "Holy Trinity", Eve never really had it to start with, and I don't think it should be in a rush to do so.


Yes. I am sick and tired of dedicated tank/healer/dps builds that are basically useless in the other areas. It's a crap mechanic to take a thousand laser shots to the face and be unharmed because a thousand nurses are healing you.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Lil Nippy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-12-02 21:05:35 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Takseen wrote:

On the other hand, a cool thing about logis in Eve is that you don't need them for 100% of everything. When the MMO genre is looking for clever ways to avoid the "Holy Trinity", Eve never really had it to start with, and I don't think it should be in a rush to do so.


Yes. I am sick and tired of dedicated tank/healer/dps builds that are basically useless in the other areas. It's a crap mechanic to take a thousand laser shots to the face and be unharmed because a thousand nurses are healing you.


And it is better to get melted in seconds by a 2to1 force?
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#40 - 2011-12-02 21:12:32 UTC
I cannot agree with the OP's vision of ECM immunity though so I would ask - what would be your proposed counter (I hope you agree everything needs a counter) to logistics if they were given ECM immunity? Would it be "bring more DPS"? If so, don't you think it would only lead to more blobbing? This is the reason why there definitely should be no immunity, maybe quite the opposite.

The way I see ECM is that it should in fact be *the* counter to logistics (besides skill at target switching, simultaneous high alpha fire and whatnot) - it needs an overhaul that changes it from the wrecker of solo and small-gang pvp to a reasonably effective logistics counter. The other uses of ECM are already covered by other forms of EWAR. There are many ideas forr such an overhaul proposed in the assembly hall (my favourite being the 'ecm limits to 1 target' idea.

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.