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Killing freighters in high sec

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#41 - 2014-05-05 21:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Things a ganker risks/loses:

  1. His ship(s) (all the ships involved in the gank)
  2. 15 minutes of relentless CONCORD-chasing
  3. Kill rights grants his victim potential to retaliate if ganker lives in hisec
  4. Loot fairy fail
  5. Gank fails, ganker still dies
  6. In other words, risk of completely wasting time, money, and sec status for no outcome


Things a freighter can do to stay alive:

  1. Do not haul stuff worth 2x more than the ships it takes to gank the freighter.
  2. Do not haul stuff if you know there are people around who hate / have a grudge / have non-financial reasons to kill you.
  3. Whine on the forums NO! This encourages (2) above.


That is literally everything a freighter has to do to avoid most ganks. Here, I even made a tool for maths-challenged freighter pilots to know when they're flying a loot piñata. Made it a while back so the prices might be a bit off, but it's still a good reference tool. For instance, are you flying 10 billion ISK worth of stuff in a Fenrir? 8 Tornados ganking you are looking at about 4 billion ISK in profit. You have a "gank me" sign on your back.

HTFU, L2P, etc. Don't go crying to the forums because you can't figure out basic math to keep you safe, though.

(edited because the Eve forum is **** at URLs with "&" in them)

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Pcr
Corporation of DEA
Memento Moriendo
#42 - 2014-05-05 21:48:02 UTC
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Also, we do pay a penalty to CONCORD for this sort of thing, equal to whatever the insurance payout of our suicide ship was. Wasn't all that long ago that insurance still paid out when a ship was killed by CONCORD.

I too would like to hear how one can suicide a freighter with a Catalyst though.


I said your penalty is too small in my opinion. If you kill a ship in high sec you should pay more than that. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying not to do it. Do it but ( really ) pay for it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#43 - 2014-05-05 21:49:21 UTC
Pcr wrote:
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Also, we do pay a penalty to CONCORD for this sort of thing, equal to whatever the insurance payout of our suicide ship was. Wasn't all that long ago that insurance still paid out when a ship was killed by CONCORD.

I too would like to hear how one can suicide a freighter with a Catalyst though.


I said your penalty is too small in my opinion. If you kill a ship in high sec you should pay more than that. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying not to do it. Do it but ( really ) pay for it.


Nope. Ganking has been nerfed too many times as it is.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lady Areola Fappington
#44 - 2014-05-05 21:49:32 UTC
Adding a longer CONCORD criminal timer will just require longer amounts of time docked. This would detract from conflict, and CCP does not like taking conflict out of the game.

If you want a longer suspect style free-shoot timer, well...after -5.0 it doesn't matter, outlaws are perma suspect. Set right, a killright gives a 30 day "suspect flag" as is.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Pcr
Corporation of DEA
Memento Moriendo
#45 - 2014-05-05 21:58:45 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Things a ganker risks/loses:

  1. His ship(s) (all the ships involved in the gank)
  2. 15 minutes of relentless CONCORD-chasing
  3. Kill rights grants his victim potential to retaliate if ganker lives in hisec
  4. Loot fairy fail
  5. Gank fails, ganker still dies
  6. In other words, risk of completely wasting time, money, and sec status for no outcome


Things a freighter can do to stay alive:

  1. Do not haul stuff worth 2x more than the ships it takes to gank the freighter.
  2. Do not haul stuff if you know there are people around who hate / have a grudge / have non-financial reasons to kill you.
  3. Whine on the forums NO! This encourages (2) above.


That is literally everything a freighter has to do to avoid most ganks. Here, I even made a tool for maths-challenged freighter pilots to know when they're flying a loot piñata. Made it a while back so the prices might be a bit off, but it's still a good reference tool. For instance, are you flying 10 billion ISK worth of stuff in a Fenrir? 8 Tornados ganking you are looking at about 4 billion ISK in profit. You have a "gank me" sign on your back.

HTFU, L2P, etc. Don't go crying to the forums because you can't figure out basic math to keep you safe, though.

(edited because the Eve forum is **** at URLs with "&" in them)



http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23302805

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23302851

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23302868


Your wall of text is useless in these 3 kills.
Some guys killed 3 freighters with no cargo.

They have minimal loss and a bucket of tears as a reward perhaps.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#46 - 2014-05-05 22:03:52 UTC
Pcr wrote:


Your wall of text is useless in these 3 kills.
Some guys killed 3 freighters with no cargo.

They have minimal loss and a bucket of tears as a reward perhaps.


Please show me the section of the EULA that forbids me from killing someone if I don't stand to profit off of it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lady Areola Fappington
#47 - 2014-05-05 22:05:31 UTC
Pcr wrote:


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23302805

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23302851

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23302868


Your wall of text is useless in these 3 kills.
Some guys killed 3 freighters with no cargo.

They have minimal loss and a bucket of tears as a reward perhaps.



Here's your reason why. One or more of those gankers has an alt that somehow, directly or indirectly, via an unknown number of steps, supports someone with materials needed to build freighters. They most likely don't even know who this person is.

By killing the freighter, they drive up demand for that ship, which drives up demand for the materials (via said unknown number of steps), thereby increasing the ganker's profits.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Pcr
Corporation of DEA
Memento Moriendo
#48 - 2014-05-05 22:09:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pcr wrote:


Your wall of text is useless in these 3 kills.
Some guys killed 3 freighters with no cargo.

They have minimal loss and a bucket of tears as a reward perhaps.


Please show me the section of the EULA that forbids me from killing someone if I don't stand to profit off of it.



You miss my point. Kill them. All of them ! But pay more in high sec. How much more? I don't know, more flagged time, a fine to Concord, whatever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#49 - 2014-05-05 22:14:34 UTC
Pcr wrote:

You miss my point. Kill them. All of them ! But pay more in high sec. How much more? I don't know, more flagged time, a fine to Concord, whatever.


Why?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#50 - 2014-05-05 22:21:50 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Actually, opposite to your view that gankers should pay a heavier price; industrialists, mission runners, miners and other people that are ganked should be made to pay an additional tax proportionate to the value of their ship, fit and cargo.

Those that take valuable cargo in untanked ships, or min/max a mission ship with bling fit should have to pay a big levy to offset the risk that Concord will have to spawn on their behalf at some point.

Those that take small cargo in tanked ships, would of course pay less because of the lower risk of Concord intervention.

Why should people that fit and manage their security risk properly have to pay the same amount as someone who shows no regard for their own safety?


Sure, so long as there is a "srsly CONCORD, I know what I'm doing and have a fleet with me" payoff so they don't tax me anything? Corp HQ in lowsec maybe?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#51 - 2014-05-05 22:24:46 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Things a ganker risks/loses:

  1. His ship(s) (all the ships involved in the gank)
  2. 15 minutes of relentless CONCORD-chasing
  3. Kill rights grants his victim potential to retaliate if ganker lives in hisec
  4. Loot fairy fail
  5. Gank fails, ganker still dies
  6. In other words, risk of completely wasting time, money, and sec status for no outcome


Things a freighter can do to stay alive:

  1. Do not haul stuff worth 2x more than the ships it takes to gank the freighter.
  2. Do not haul stuff if you know there are people around who hate / have a grudge / have non-financial reasons to kill you.
  3. Whine on the forums NO! This encourages (2) above. Friendly webber
  4. Gang links/boosters for siege/skirmish/armoured warfare (any one, or all three).


That is literally everything a freighter has to do to avoid most ganks. Here, I even made a tool for maths-challenged freighter pilots to know when they're flying a loot piñata. Made it a while back so the prices might be a bit off, but it's still a good reference tool. For instance, are you flying 10 billion ISK worth of stuff in a Fenrir? 8 Tornados ganking you are looking at about 4 billion ISK in profit. You have a "gank me" sign on your back.

HTFU, L2P, etc. Don't go crying to the forums because you can't figure out basic math to keep you safe, though.

(edited because the Eve forum is **** at URLs with "&" in them)


You missed a couple. Fixed Blink

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#52 - 2014-05-05 22:28:59 UTC
Why not find friends who protect you?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#53 - 2014-05-05 22:33:43 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Why not find friends who protect you?


Because being friends in highsec was considered to OP by the people of highsec, so they refuse to engage in friendship until it is nerfed by CCP.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#54 - 2014-05-05 22:36:27 UTC
Pcr wrote:
Other than rather modest trolls, I see no reply about risk and reward. Catalyst ( risk ) - Freighter 1,3 bil+ cargo ( reward ).
So you believe in ISK tanking?

GTFO
Solecist Project wrote:
Why not find friends who protect you?
Requires friends Oops


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#55 - 2014-05-05 22:41:33 UTC
Get rid of disposable, recyclable alts. Better yet, get rid of alts entirely. Otherwise no changes needed.

No good deed goes unpunished
Solecist Project
#56 - 2014-05-05 22:43:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Pcr wrote:
Other than rather modest trolls, I see no reply about risk and reward. Catalyst ( risk ) - Freighter 1,3 bil+ cargo ( reward ).
So you believe in ISK tanking?

GTFO
Solecist Project wrote:
Why not find friends who protect you?
Requires friends Oops


I'd be his friend. :D
I'd be your friend too!


That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-05-05 22:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Only total and utter morons lose freighters in hisec.
Solecist Project's Alt
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-05-05 22:44:27 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Get rid of disposable, recyclable alts. Better yet, get rid of alts entirely. Otherwise no changes needed.
I hope that I don't count.

That'd suck a lot. lol


PotatoOverdose wrote:
Only total and utter morons loose freighters in hisec.

lose*

Irony*
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#59 - 2014-05-05 22:44:29 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Get rid of disposable, recyclable alts. Better yet, get rid of alts entirely. Otherwise no changes needed.


It's a bannable offense to recycle alts already.

It's also the next best thing to an urban legend that it happens in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-05-05 22:46:32 UTC
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:
Maxpie wrote:
Get rid of disposable, recyclable alts. Better yet, get rid of alts entirely. Otherwise no changes needed.
I hope that I don't count.

That'd suck a lot. lol


PotatoOverdose wrote:
Only total and utter morons loose freighters in hisec.

lose*

Irony*

Fix'd. Also, nevr sed I spel gud.