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Offline towers claiming moons
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Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
#21 - 2011-11-30 13:32:19 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Two things. First, just wardec and take the moon. It's only 2M and a bit of ammo.

Second. No, offline towers should never be simply removed. Some corps (like my own) have a POS but don't constantly use it due to fuel requirements. We do online it when needed, but it's not always needed every month. And we don't want to take it down due to the standings required to re-anchor it (requiring people to drop and rejoin the corp is just painful if you don't have to).

There really isn't a problem here. If you want a certain moon, take it. Otherwise don't complain about it, the system is fine as-is.


"System is working fine, because I benefit from it!"

Your post in one sentence...

Spybeaver
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-11-30 16:16:17 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
I'm seeing the potential for a new sort of merc corp here. Pay someone the war dec fee, plus a merc fee, and they take down the offline towers around hi sec.

People do this for fun believe it or not

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Nullbear
Zerg Hatchery
#23 - 2011-12-01 03:00:04 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Dorian Wylde wrote:
I'm seeing the potential for a new sort of merc corp here. Pay someone the war dec fee, plus a merc fee, and they take down the offline towers around hi sec.

People do this for fun believe it or not

People do this for fun? Unpossible
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#24 - 2011-12-01 03:54:51 UTC
Sapheni wrote:
I am sure there are indeed empty moons within a few jumps of Jita, but it's like hunting a needle in a haystack. Most moons are occupied by offline towers. And yes, I can destroy an offline tower, but that is not the point. The towers are occupying moons - i.e. conferring a strategic advantage - without cost to the owner.


  • If the corp is dead then its infrastructure should decay;
  • If the corp is occupying a spot but not using it then it should pay for it (or the infrastucture should decay);
  • If the corp is occupying the spot in order to 'ransom' it... then it should have to pay to do so (or the infrastructure should decay).


No doubt I will have to waste a few hours shooting one of these dead towers in the end, but I don't think the current system fits with the ethos of the game and it ought to be changed.



The risk of losing the investment in the POS is a cost. The risk of a wardec from people wishing to remove the POS is a cost. Just because the cost isn't in ISK doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

1: If the corp is dead, wardec and bash away risk free.
2 and 3: They're paying with risk

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-12-01 03:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
I cannot understand why people complain. In EVE, you don't really need a damn reason to do anything (don't like the dudes mustache, he parts his hair a way that makes you grind his teeth, and he is the same sex as you...reason enough to wardec someone Roll) and can just do what the **** you want, you don't need CCP to make it that much easier for you. Someone set up before you, they took that grid space first and you have no ******* right to to it except take it by force.

Its been pointed out how to handle the problem. Communicate with the Corp, maybe its abandoned. "Hey Broski's, I see a tower at X System, Y Planet, Z Moon I would like to take and its just a single tower you left behind, could you take it down". Wait a day or 2 for response, if nothing...Shoot the ******* thing with a wardec, AFK it takes less then a day or 2 if its small (bring friends if its larger). Send a message after the tower is down as a courtesy that the wardec was to remove tower that didn't seem to be in use, which is risk enough in itself to destroy it by leaving it out unattended. An unattended tower is not producing a tangible reward to the owner and no risk to you to shoot it down. BAM! Done, no need to get CCP to fix a small issue you can't get your own ass to deal with it.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#26 - 2011-12-01 04:14:06 UTC
Eric Raeder wrote:
I have an offline tower in wormhole space that has been there for nearly a year, and would self destruct if I could, the periodic notifications I recieve about it are annoying. I would definitely like CCP to put in some mechanic that causes offline towers to unanchor after some period of time.


+1 There are some very nice faction towers sitting empty near me atm I'd love to take and set up as operational POS, but....
Shik Koken
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-12-01 06:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shik Koken
Even with my freshly minted pilot license in my back pocket, I've learned that EVERYTHING including pilots themselves can be bought and sold in the Eve universe. I assume that maybe you should contact the owner or corporation and buy the space station off from them. Even though it may be a bit more than the cost of war deccing and shooting it down, it would save the aggravation and time.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#28 - 2011-12-01 12:01:21 UTC
offline towers in empire should always need a war dec, no matter how long they have been offline.

many people use them as and when they need to, so only onlining them once every few months, any mechanic that cleans away offline pos's is detrimental to others and there game.

so war dec kill them is the best way and imo the only way it should be

OMG when can i get a pic here
Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
#29 - 2011-12-01 16:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bath Sheeba
Shouldn't all towers in high sec require empire charters to stay anchored? (Note anchored not online.)

If that was a requirement then you could have offline towers with charters in them to hold moons and if you forget/corp dies/people don't play, etc then the towers would unanchor and be "repossesed" by the empire they are in, (or perhaps, go back to the corp at the nearest station to the lost tower.)

This would take care of the issues of people "camping" a tower on a moon just to hold it, and not hurt those that do not want the tower constantly online.


Note this mechanic would only apply to high sec empire space, where you need charters to run a tower.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#30 - 2011-12-01 17:01:15 UTC
Bath Sheeba wrote:
Shouldn't all towers in high sec require empire charters to stay anchored? (Note anchored not online.)

If that was a requirement then you could have offline towers with charters in them to hold moons and if you forget/corp dies/people don't play, etc then the towers would unanchor and be "repossesed" by the empire they are in, (or perhaps, go back to the corp at the nearest station to the lost tower.)

This would take care of the issues of people "camping" a tower on a moon just to hold it, and not hurt those that do not want the tower constantly online.


Note this mechanic would only apply to high sec empire space, where you need charters to run a tower.


I actually like this idea. If you need to have charters in your tower in high sec it should not matter if it is online or off line. the charter is you right to anchor in that factions space. without it you tower should auto unanchor in a set amount of time.

I would not bother with any repackaging or removal. just un-anchor and let it drift around the system.

If someone happens by the moon shortly after it unanchore they can scoop up the pos. if not it may show up in system scans and then then be found and scooped. say a month after it un-anchors it self destructs.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#31 - 2011-12-01 18:10:27 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Bath Sheeba wrote:
Shouldn't all towers in high sec require empire charters to stay anchored? (Note anchored not online.)

If that was a requirement then you could have offline towers with charters in them to hold moons and if you forget/corp dies/people don't play, etc then the towers would unanchor and be "repossesed" by the empire they are in, (or perhaps, go back to the corp at the nearest station to the lost tower.)

This would take care of the issues of people "camping" a tower on a moon just to hold it, and not hurt those that do not want the tower constantly online.


Note this mechanic would only apply to high sec empire space, where you need charters to run a tower.


I actually like this idea. If you need to have charters in your tower in high sec it should not matter if it is online or off line. the charter is you right to anchor in that factions space. without it you tower should auto unanchor in a set amount of time.

I would not bother with any repackaging or removal. just un-anchor and let it drift around the system.

If someone happens by the moon shortly after it unanchore they can scoop up the pos. if not it may show up in system scans and then then be found and scooped. say a month after it un-anchors it self destructs.


You're paying Charters for the use of your POS. You're not using an offline POS, ergo no charters. If it's a dead corp, the POS will get asploded eventually by someone who wardeccs it (one man alt corp with a laser BS. There's no RF timer) or, if it's not worth that, then it's not hogging any resource anyone actually wants. There's no problem here.

tl;dr If the POS is holding a moon worth having, shoot it. If it's not, then who cares? Working as intended.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#32 - 2011-12-01 19:24:19 UTC
It doesn't take long to scan a system for an empty moon.

If it is a small system less than 28 AU across, and you can get to the middle of it, then the entire system will show on dscan. Smaller systems don't require you to warp. Dscan and count the towers. Right-click in space to see how many moons each planet has. Note any difference in counts.

In larger systems you can warp to a planet and dscan (limit your dscan range if necessary to avoid overlapping planets you already scanned). Even really large 100 AU systems only take a few warps and dscans for complete coverage.

Once you find a system with free moons, warp to a planet and use dscan at progressively increasing range to cover one moon at a time (1 AU is approximately 150,000,000 km).

Clever people will do a binary search: scan half, decide if the target in the scanned half or the un-scanned half, adjust range and repeat. Using a binary search, it takes 6 dscans or less to locate 1 moon out of 64.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#33 - 2011-12-01 20:12:37 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
It doesn't take long to scan a system for an empty moon.

If it is a small system less than 28 AU across, and you can get to the middle of it, then the entire system will show on dscan. Smaller systems don't require you to warp. Dscan and count the towers. Right-click in space to see how many moons each planet has. Note any difference in counts.

In larger systems you can warp to a planet and dscan (limit your dscan range if necessary to avoid overlapping planets you already scanned). Even really large 100 AU systems only take a few warps and dscans for complete coverage.

Once you find a system with free moons, warp to a planet and use dscan at progressively increasing range to cover one moon at a time (1 AU is approximately 150,000,000 km).

Clever people will do a binary search: scan half, decide if the target in the scanned half or the un-scanned half, adjust range and repeat. Using a binary search, it takes 6 dscans or less to locate 1 moon out of 64.


When I hear the words "Scanning Moons" I start sobbing uncontrollably. Hisec has it easy. Pick moon, place POS. Everywhere else you have to toss a probe at every single moon (pop goes the CovOps if someone's got their POS settings wrong), then sit and wait for all the results and screenshot them or type them up.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
#34 - 2011-12-01 21:06:48 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
The risk of losing the investment in the POS is a cost. The risk of a wardec from people wishing to remove the POS is a cost. Just because the cost isn't in ISK doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

1: If the corp is dead, wardec and bash away risk free.
2 and 3: They're paying with risk



No they don't.

1. If the corp is dead then its belongings should not occupy space that other players might use (or cost them to clear up).
2+3. If they're small fry then they'll just take it down before the war dec takes effect: they lose the moon they weren't using, but they don't lose any money, unlike the corp that wants the space. If they're large enough to ransom it and defend it then they'll see off small scale threats (unless you happen to have a large alliance at your disposal in which case you probably wouldn't care about a high moon in the first place).

RubyPorto wrote:
When I hear the words "Scanning Moons" I start sobbing uncontrollably. Hisec has it easy. Pick moon, place POS. Everywhere else you have to toss a probe at every single moon (pop goes the CovOps if someone's got their POS settings wrong), then sit and wait for all the results and screenshot them or type them up.


What? You don't just pick a moon and place a POS in hi sec. You have to grindingly build up standings and then find an emply moon (good luck), but you can't mine so there's no point probing them anyway. In low or null sec you don't have problems finding empty moons, and if you want to mine you don't need probes (any moon worth anything will have a deathstar on it), you need a fleet of dreads.

Anyway, this thread has served a purpose. I received an e-mail from a corp offering to clear some POSs... And I happen to have more money than I do time. Smile
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#35 - 2011-12-02 15:57:27 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
30 days of inactive, then they become hackable (l4 or l5 required).
You hack the tower, and it becomes yours. You have one hour to fuel it or it goes boom (or something, I dunno).

flying up to a tower, you won't know if it's hackable or not, so you just have to try with all offlined towers. If it's not hackable, you fail with some specific message that you're not able to gain access to the tower's computers (i.e. something really specific so you KNOW you'll never succeed). Otherwise, you just get normal failure notes (stuff along the lines of "almost had it ... maybe if I tried ...") or a success message.


Briliant idea, i'll second that. I've come across so many abandoned towers in wh space, and have always thought it to be completely mad that the only thing you can do is blow them up. Stealing them after 30days inactivity seems far more eve-like to me. Lol

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#36 - 2011-12-02 19:21:53 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
30 days of inactive, then they become hackable (l4 or l5 required).
You hack the tower, and it becomes yours. You have one hour to fuel it or it goes boom (or something, I dunno).

flying up to a tower, you won't know if it's hackable or not, so you just have to try with all offlined towers. If it's not hackable, you fail with some specific message that you're not able to gain access to the tower's computers (i.e. something really specific so you KNOW you'll never succeed). Otherwise, you just get normal failure notes (stuff along the lines of "almost had it ... maybe if I tried ...") or a success message.


Briliant idea, i'll second that. I've come across so many abandoned towers in wh space, and have always thought it to be completely mad that the only thing you can do is blow them up. Stealing them after 30days inactivity seems far more eve-like to me. Lol



Make it 60 days, I think that'd be a farer middle ground. I can see 30 as a bit too short. Also how do you classify inactivity? What of those that have a second tower (offline) in case they're business expands? It's really pita to get the standing to put a new one down (half my alt drag down standing). This for high-sec ofc.

I definitely agree that offline towers shouldn't litter space forever.

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Velicitia
XS Tech
#37 - 2011-12-02 19:45:31 UTC
Riley Moore wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
30 days of inactive, then they become hackable (l4 or l5 required).
You hack the tower, and it becomes yours. You have one hour to fuel it or it goes boom (or something, I dunno).

flying up to a tower, you won't know if it's hackable or not, so you just have to try with all offlined towers. If it's not hackable, you fail with some specific message that you're not able to gain access to the tower's computers (i.e. something really specific so you KNOW you'll never succeed). Otherwise, you just get normal failure notes (stuff along the lines of "almost had it ... maybe if I tried ...") or a success message.


Briliant idea, i'll second that. I've come across so many abandoned towers in wh space, and have always thought it to be completely mad that the only thing you can do is blow them up. Stealing them after 30days inactivity seems far more eve-like to me. Lol



Make it 60 days, I think that'd be a farer middle ground. I can see 30 as a bit too short. Also how do you classify inactivity? What of those that have a second tower (offline) in case they're business expands? It's really pita to get the standing to put a new one down (half my alt drag down standing). This for high-sec ofc.

I definitely agree that offline towers shouldn't litter space forever.


if you online it for an hour (or a day, whatever) -- it's not inactive. if it's been sitting offlined for however many days -- it's inactive

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#38 - 2011-12-02 19:53:09 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Riley Moore wrote:



Make it 60 days, I think that'd be a farer middle ground. I can see 30 as a bit too short. Also how do you classify inactivity? What of those that have a second tower (offline) in case they're business expands? It's really pita to get the standing to put a new one down (half my alt drag down standing). This for high-sec ofc.

I definitely agree that offline towers shouldn't litter space forever.


if you online it for an hour (or a day, whatever) -- it's not inactive. if it's been sitting offlined for however many days -- it's inactive



That could work. :)

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#39 - 2011-12-02 20:14:43 UTC
Get friends, war dec corp, shoot tower.

Seriously all this does is give lazy industrialists a mechanic to bypass the method for taking down a moon.

Stop being lazy, shoot tower if you want moon.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-12-03 08:31:03 UTC
I have a tower that I use maybe 5 days out of 30 for copying and ME. Just because it looks unused, doesn't mean it's always unused.
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