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I haven't seen hulks in a long time..I miss seeing them..
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#41 - 2014-05-05 12:25:41 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
Now I don't mean this as a rant, at all, but as a pointer. Scordite is worth nearly as much as the most valuable ore, and formerly most valuable ore (not including mercoxit because because)


You got that back-to-front: the amount of high-end ore mined in relative safety has brought ABC down to the level of hi sec ores, which are now the most dangerous ones to mine.

Ilovetomine wrote:
Any boat can mine scordite, etc. There should be a higher reward for the risk of said "null sec" boat, etc, if you catch my meaning.


Why should there be a higher reward for lower risk?

Ilovetomine wrote:
I have also read that CCP plans to increase the value of ABC, + Hed + Hem. But I still don't really think that will put the hulk in a niche that it belongs, as a null-sec mining boat.


All this will achieve is pushing down the value of the ores that already contain the Mexallon being added to those ores. The null sec miners are flooding the market with their product, thus the value of their product is falling. The factors of risk, effort, reward and value are achieving a natural balance.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#42 - 2014-05-05 12:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
It's hard to want to invest in Hulks when events like Hulkageddon take place.
Hulkageddon hasn't occurred in 2 years, although they're still dying by the dozen*.

*Yes it's a killboard link, but for a specific ship type, not a specific kill.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Oraac Ensor
#43 - 2014-05-05 13:01:10 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:


Miners are however more likely to replace their Retrievers / Mackinaws with Procurers / Battle-Skiffs after being ganked.


Been this way for at least 6 months Blink

You seem to have overlooked the words I've emphasised in Tau's post.
I Have 18Accounts
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-05-05 13:37:06 UTC
There won't be many hulks after industry change either.

CCP thinks people want to mine actively, hahahahaha.

With an ore hold of 8,500m3, the Hulk is always the worst vessel of choice.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#45 - 2014-05-05 13:39:30 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:


Miners are however more likely to replace their Retrievers / Mackinaws with Procurers / Battle-Skiffs after being ganked.


Been this way for at least 6 months Blink

You seem to have overlooked the words I've emphasised in Tau's post.


What?

But it is more likely that miners replace their Rets and Macks with Procs and Skiffs after being ganked and has been that way for at least six months

Sorry, Im not seeing what Ive said that's wrong here

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#46 - 2014-05-05 15:50:10 UTC
I Have 18Accounts wrote:
CCP thinks people want to mine actively, hahahahaha.


Not sure exactly what you are getting at here, but it does sound as if it has been quite a while since you have been mining in HiSec...

Between the competition, the apparent limit(?) on HiSec asteroid size and the cycle times of strip miners, then HiSec 'AFK' mining hasn't really been a thing in a very, very long time. At the very best of times, then you may occasionally get about 4 complete cycles out of a single asteroid, and it had better be plain Veldspar.

With a solid Orca bonus each cycle takes about 120 s on a Mackinaw, which means that you may occasionally be able to leave your seat for 8 minutes at a time. This assumes that you have two suitably sized rocks available at the same time, and that you start your strip miners pretty much simultaneously.

However in reality this rarely comes to pass, as most asteroids with a valuable composition, like Scordite and Pyroxeres, are much, much smaller, even in a fairly empty solar system. Meaning you mostly get up to 2-3 complete cycles out of a single rock. Add to this that you frequently need to 'break' cycles or waste most of the time for the last cycle, and the result is that your strip miners are more likely than not to not be synchronized in time. IE. you'd better plan for being around pretty much most of the time while actively mining.

If you multi-box several mining ships, then you'd definitely need to be on station all the time.

The exception might be someone actually using some form of illegal botting software, which is against the ToS.

tl;dr: These days the whole 'bot-aspirancy AFK mining badness' is just a RP thing, which gankers like to use to justify their actions with. Nothing more.

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#47 - 2014-05-05 17:18:56 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
What?

But it is more likely that miners replace their Rets and Macks with Procs and Skiffs after being ganked and has been that way for at least six months

Sorry, Im not seeing what Ive said that's wrong here

Degree is the point being made.

You are completely correct. However let's for arguments sake say 30% switch to a Procurer / SKiff now, and I was suggesting post-Kronos that number might be higher, like 60%.

If this is self-evident, then you can write it off to Oraac Ensor being pedantic about it... which is usually my job. Blink
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#48 - 2014-05-05 17:34:29 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
What?

But it is more likely that miners replace their Rets and Macks with Procs and Skiffs after being ganked and has been that way for at least six months

Sorry, Im not seeing what Ive said that's wrong here

Degree is the point being made.

You are completely correct. However let's for arguments sake say 30% switch to a Procurer / SKiff now, and I was suggesting post-Kronos that number might be higher, like 60%.

If this is self-evident, then you can write it off to Oraac Ensor being pedantic about it... which is usually my job. Blink


lol

Well we agree and that's the important point.

And yes, the degree to which the likely hood is increasing is... also increasing too

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-05-05 18:05:52 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
I remember CCP changing the hulls around, and eventually people stopped flying hulks. Why? Because of their paper thin tank and easy kill for gankers. A single catalyst can rip one to shreds before concord can ever arrive.


I don't think you know what you are talking about. Hulks and Macks have similar (terrible) tanks. The difference is that mac's have a decent cargo bay. Unless you have a fleet, macs will give higher profit margins than hulks do. If you want a tank fly a skiff.

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Andronaxus
Greed is Good Inc.
#50 - 2014-05-05 18:10:26 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:


On a side note... get rid of those wimpy old strip miner animations, and bring back the old one.



AGREED. There are no hullks because the purpose they serve...doesn't serve the players' purposes. Sad thing, really. Too much CCP meddling killed it.

Size should matter. A Hulk should have more storage capacity (50% more) than a retriever. Your own eyes and common sense argues this when you see them side-by-side.

As for the old animations? HECK, YES! That old off-and-on cutting beam animation is what drove me to love mining to begin with.

Bring it back!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-05-05 18:12:23 UTC
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:
Between the competition, the apparent limit(?) on HiSec asteroid size and the cycle times of strip miners, then HiSec 'AFK' mining hasn't really been a thing in a very, very long time. At the very best of times, then you may occasionally get about 4 complete cycles out of a single asteroid, and it had better be plain Veldspar.

With a solid Orca bonus each cycle takes about 120 s on a Mackinaw, which means that you may occasionally be able to leave your seat for 8 minutes at a time. This assumes that you have two suitably sized rocks available at the same time, and that you start your strip miners pretty much simultaneously.

EIGHT MINUTES!
Do you realize how long this is? Try leaving your computer for eight minutes in any other setting. Market PVP, you get undercut before that often. Missions you'll have to toggle reps to avoid running out of cap every 1-2 minutes not to mention target management. Exploration requires you to always be active with scanning, hacking, or managing loot spew. Hell even traveling, you have to check local every 30 seconds to a minute, and use mwd/cloak at least that often when in a ship cruiser sized or larger.

Mining needs to be fixed.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-05-05 18:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Jill Chastot wrote:
Chester Huggins wrote:
Out of curiosity, how useful do you think a shield transfer role would be for Hulks?

Like, give them a utility high, have barge and exhumer skills maybe affect shield transfer cycle time, and a role bonus to reduce fitting.

I'm wondering if this would help with the Hulk's fleet role, letting Hulk swarms help tank each other. Would this make Hulks overpowered, or not make much difference?

[Edit] Same for Covetors of course, although they wouldn't benefit from the Exhumer skill.


WTB Battlehulk fleet.

Can they actually fit weapons though? Or would they be using just their drones?


Drones only

check on youtube for JNB's pvp-hulk video

also note that this fit is no longer effective due to changes to the some of the modules used.
it's still a funny video however :D
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#53 - 2014-05-05 18:40:49 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
Chester Huggins wrote:
Out of curiosity, how useful do you think a shield transfer role would be for Hulks?

Like, give them a utility high, have barge and exhumer skills maybe affect shield transfer cycle time, and a role bonus to reduce fitting.

I'm wondering if this would help with the Hulk's fleet role, letting Hulk swarms help tank each other. Would this make Hulks overpowered, or not make much difference?

[Edit] Same for Covetors of course, although they wouldn't benefit from the Exhumer skill.


WTB Battlehulk fleet.

Can they actually fit weapons though? Or would they be using just their drones?


Drones only

check on youtube for JNB's pvp-hulk video

also note that this fit is no longer effective due to changes to the some of the modules used.
it's still a funny video however :D

^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#54 - 2014-05-05 18:47:49 UTC
If I remember correctly, aren't Hulks currently the 2nd most popular mining vessel?

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Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#55 - 2014-05-05 20:45:54 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Mining needs to be fixed.

You should probably consider reading the rest of my post after your quote.

My point was that while it may appear to the uninitiated that mining is an AFK'able activity, in reality it isn't (if you actually intend to make ISK from it).

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.
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