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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships First post First post First post
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Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#2061 - 2014-05-05 02:18:11 UTC

Priestess Lin wrote:

WHOA! you are blowing my mind man. I didn't even think not having 50% bonus missile damage was a possibility. Are you saying it is a good idea if the Rattlesnake remains a drone boat? That means it is even possible that we can think about a Snake that keeps its +50% drone damage and HP for all its drones and maybe even the 400m3 drone bay that made it desirable in the first place.

I'm not sure if losing the thermic/kinetic missile damage bonus is even an option - I'm just throwing it out there. On Tuesday we'll be able to run a pair of Geckos that will actually do more damage with the current iteration of the Rattlesnake than the proposed one, which seems a tad odd (3.0 equivalent drones vs. 2.75 drones due to the reduction in bandwidth). Especially since the Gecko seems custom-designed with the Rattlesnake in-mind. As for the application of drone damage to all drones and a bump to the size of the drone bay, I don't think either are very realistic.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Barton Breau

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 105

#2062 - 2014-05-05 04:41:52 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Priestess Lin wrote:

People already think 800dps @ 50km gardes are op, with 1600dps it does not even matter if there are any launchers at all.

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#2063 - 2014-05-05 04:47:52 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

Barton Breau wrote:

People already think 800dps @ 50km gardes are op, with 1600dps it does not even matter if there are any launchers at all.

I'm fine with that. Drop 3 high slots, all 5 launchers and give me another +1 mid and +2 lows: 3h, 8m, 8l. But we have to have 100mbit bandwidth in this scenario. Here's another variation:

RATTLESNAKE
Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% heavy drone velocity and tracking
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 275% bonus to heavy drone damage and hitpoints

Slot layout: 3H(-3), 8M(+1), 8L(+2); 0 turrets, 0 launchers(-4)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-25)/ 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.


Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#2064 - 2014-05-05 05:04:50 UTC Just to ensure I have my math right here… A +275% bonus is actually a multiplier of 3.75x (100% + 275%). Is that correct? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Hasikan Miallok

Republic University

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 1,926

#2065 - 2014-05-05 05:13:20 UTC | Edited by: Hasikan Miallok

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Just to ensure I have my math right here… A +275% bonus is actually a multiplier of 3.75x (100% + 275%). Is that correct?

Yep so currently:

Light , Medium, Heavy and Sentry = 5 * 1.5 = 7.5 equivalent unbonused drones DPS

After patch:

Heavy and Sentry = 2 * 3.75 = 7.5 equivalent unbonused drones DPS (no change)

Light , Medium = 5 * 1.0 = 5.0 equivalent unbonused drones (33% nerf)

Made up for by 38 cap (WTF? why bother)
Extra launcher and 50% missile damage but losing missile velocity bonus

PLUS needs to be taken in context of other drone and module changes

Barton Breau

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 105

#2066 - 2014-05-05 05:29:12 UTC

Hasikan Miallok wrote:

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Just to ensure I have my math right here… A +275% bonus is actually a multiplier of 3.75x (100% + 275%). Is that correct?

Which, apart of speed, are or will be very small, damage stays (-5% - +8%), faction ddas taken officer ones into account will give maybe 6% extra for four of them.

Or do you mean something else?

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#2067 - 2014-05-05 05:54:38 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

My damage numbers are off then. A single Gecko with V skills and four Faction DDA's should deliver somewhere around 1250 dps. Five T2 RHMLs with Fury ammunition, V skills, Faction BCUs and two +5 implants should deal around 600 dps. That's 1850 dps. I was also off on my EHP by about 25%, so the Geckos will be over 40k (probably closer to 45k). With four DNC's and the upcoming changes to heavy drone velocity, the Gecko should top out somewhere around 7500 m/sec. This thing is going to be a monster…

I still want a second Gecko on my Rattlesnake, though. Is that wrong? Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Tsunami Cartel 118
Crazy KSK Tsunami Cartel Likes received: 118	#2068 - 2014-05-05 05:58:04 UTC with the vindicator being fine with its 90% web being able to fully apply ~1500dps to everything within web range a rattler with the same bonuses as the gila (4 50% bonus launchers 500% to drones) with 2200 paperdps (t2) should be fine too Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#2069 - 2014-05-05 06:35:29 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

I'm throwing out this revised proposal for consideration and feedback. In this revision the Rattlesnake loses a launcher and missile bonuses but gains up to 50mbit of bandwidth for an additional 1-2 heavy or sentry drones.

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus: 20% drone bandwidth per level
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints

Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75)/ 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Honestly, I really don't think that this would be anything other than a one trick pony.
Not a good way to go.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#2070 - 2014-05-05 06:41:50 UTC

Wait a minute,so the domi can fit two gheckos? And the ishtar, and the navy vexor.........
So the rattlesnake is getting even more of a nerf to drones?

Is this rebalance meant to make us look backwards and say "i remember the day when the rattlesnake was good"

Well it wasn't it was passable.
It is still passable.
Just slightly different.
Shame it could be good.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#2071 - 2014-05-05 06:48:38 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

The number for the Gecko seems high unless I'm missing a multiplier. Assuming faction DDA'a @ +25% (if we have real numbers and I missed them feel free to correct me) I'm coming up with ~860DPS.

(Damage types*(Base Damage*Damage mod)*(Drone Interfacing bonus)*(Heavy drone op bonus)*(ship bonus))/(ROF)

(4(32*2.05)(1.5)(1.25)(3.75))/4 = 461.25 DPS

461.25*1.86(approx cumulative bonus for 4 25% DDA's) = 858.134 DPS

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#2072 - 2014-05-05 06:52:24 UTC

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

RS: 3.75 effective geckos
Domi and ilk: 3 effective geckos + whatever elseyou want to squeeze out of the remaining 25 band (2 med 1 light?)

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#2073 - 2014-05-05 06:57:42 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

RS: 3.75 effective geckos
Domi and ilk: 3 effective geckos + whatever elseyou want to squeeze out of the remaining 25 band (2 med 1 light?)

Wow, the bonuses to heavies, will make the ishtar the most powerful ship in EvE. As it will apply all that damage.
*races to finish training Heavy assault to V* (for the range)
Now if the rattlesnake ALSO had the same bonus to range and heavy drones and sentries as the ishtar, I could embrace our new heavy overlords. Big smile

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#2074 - 2014-05-05 07:04:55 UTC

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Wait a minute,so the domi can fit two gheckos? And the ishtar, and the navy vexor.........
So the rattlesnake is getting even more of a nerf to drones?

Nope… There's a 284.7% difference between a Gecko and Ogre II. Even with a single Gecko the Rattlesnake will still do roughly 25% more drone damage.

Ishtar, Nestor (etc.)
• 2x Gecko = 8.54 effective heavy drones (2 x 1.5 x 2.847)
• 5x Ogre II = 7.5 effective heavy drones (2 x 1.5)

Rattlesnake
• 1x Gecko = 10.7 effective heavy drones (1 x 3.75 x 2.847)
• 2x Ogre II = 7.5 effective heavy drones (2 x 3.75)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#2075 - 2014-05-05 07:09:45 UTC | Edited by: Tyberius Franklin

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Wait a minute,so the domi can fit two gheckos? And the ishtar, and the navy vexor.........
So the rattlesnake is getting even more of a nerf to drones?

The other ships still hare 25mb band left after the geckos so in a gecko + heavy setups they'd be looking at 10.04 effective heavies vs the 10.7 of the RS.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#2076 - 2014-05-05 07:09:59 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Wait a minute,so the domi can fit two gheckos? And the ishtar, and the navy vexor.........
So the rattlesnake is getting even more of a nerf to drones?

How about, If we are making a heavy bruiser of a battleship that uses drones, as a pirate ship we give it the same Bonus as the bonuses to heavy and sentries as the ishtar ( plus superdrone size adjustment bonus) instead of some of the missile bonus?

So a tanky bruising ishtar, what's not to like?

It IS meant to be a pirate vessel. Twisted

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Crazy KSK

Tsunami Cartel

Likes received: 118

#2077 - 2014-05-05 07:21:28 UTC | Edited by: Crazy KSK

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

you far failed the approx =O [strike](128*2,05*1,25*1,5*3,75*1,6262114)/4 750dps with 4 t2 DDAs [/strike]
= 0,5^ ( ( (x-1) / 2,22292081 ) ^2 ) is the stacking penalty formula

Edit: (128*2,05*1,25*1,5*3,75*1,23*1,1998976*1,1312341*1,0650797)/4 820dps Oops

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#2078 - 2014-05-05 07:26:42 UTC | Edited by: Tyberius Franklin

Crazy KSK wrote:

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

you far failed the approx =O (128*2,05*1,25*1,5*3,75*1,6262114)/4 750dps with 4 t2 DDAs
= 0,5^ ( ( (x-1) / 2,22292081 ) ^2 ) is the stacking penalty formula

Did I? I used the typical approximations for stacking rather than the stacking formula itself, but it shouldn't be that far off unless those approximations are equally off. Either way that's even further off the 1250 DPS prediction I was responding to.

Edit: Also working off of assumed faction DDA's rather than T2, but even accounting for that I'm over 800DPS.

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#2079 - 2014-05-05 07:28:02 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

The number for the Gecko seems high unless I'm missing a multiplier. Assuming faction DDA'a @ +25% (if we have real numbers and I missed them feel free to correct me) I'm coming up with ~860DPS.

(Damage types*(Base Damage*Damage mod)*(Drone Interfacing bonus)*(Heavy drone op bonus)*(ship bonus))/(ROF)
(4(32*2.05)(1.5)(1.25)(3.75))/4 = 461.25 DPS
461.25*1.86(approx cumulative bonus for 4 25% DDA's) = 858.134 DPS

Let me see… I think where you might be off is the skill bonuses (at least according to pyfa).

Gecko on Rattlesnake...
• 128 damage * (2.05 amplifier * 2.75 V skills * 3.75 hull * 1.875 DDAs) / 4.0s ROF
• 128 damage * (39.64) / 4.0s ROF = 1268.48 damage

If we take any hull it shows 238 dps from a pair of Ogre II's. There's a damage difference of 42.36% [ (2.05 * 128) / (2(1.92 * 48)) ] between a pair of Ogres and a single Gecko, so that means the Gecko should deal around 338.8 dps. Placed on a Rattlesnake that should give it a 3.75x multiplier or 1270.5 dps (±2-3 dps).

Addendum: On the current Rattlesnake hull I get 891 dps with 5x Ogre II's and 4x Faction DDAs (I'm using 2x Unit D-34343 and 2x T2 to approximate 4x Faction DDAs @ 25%). With 4x T2 DDAs it works out to 845 dps, so I think that the +46 dps gain (~5.1%) is probably on the realistic side. I tried this in 2 separate programs and got around 891 dps and change in each.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.


Crazy KSK Tsunami Cartel Likes received: 118	#2080 - 2014-05-05 07:34:43 UTC yeah sorry just putting the cumulated number in doesn't work (1282,051,251,53,751,231,19989761,13123411,0650797)/4 820dps <-- Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

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