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Prospect opens the door; time for T2 Orca?

Author
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#1 - 2014-05-04 17:05:22 UTC
After looking over the stats of the Prospect, I started brainstorming on how to support a small stealth operation with Mining Foreman Links. Best ideas I can come up with at the moment involve Strategic Cruisers and possibly Command Ships. At least there are a few options in there for good cloaking support, but nothing fits right.

So does the Prospect now give us a good excuse to consider a T2 Orca to support it?

Some general thoughts about such a ship...


  • Require Industrial Command Ships V, and possibly a new skill beyond that.
  • Fit a covert ops cloaking device. Preferably add a 4th high slot for it.
  • Nerf the normal cargo hold into the ground. Maybe even 1,000 m3 or smaller. This should be a specialized mining support ship, not competition for the DST and Blockade Runners.
  • Increase the size of the ore hold and/or add ore compression options.
  • Increase drone bandwidth to 100 or 125 and increase drone bay to 150 or larger.
  • Buff the power grid, to make it easier for MWD and Links to be on-line together.
  • Ship skill bonus to ore hold rather than cargo hold.



Or maybe go a completely different route and do something similar to a Strategic Cruiser?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2014-05-04 17:28:37 UTC
Covert Ops cloaked Orca?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#3 - 2014-05-04 17:36:33 UTC
Why not? But more importantly, something tailored for Mining Foreman Links to support a group of Prospects. If that is a T2 Orca, so be it. If it is a new class of Strategic Cruiser from ORE, that could work too.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2014-05-04 18:00:29 UTC
or how about a miasmos with a cloak?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#5 - 2014-05-04 18:09:06 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
or how about a miasmos with a cloak?

That would solve ore hauling, but not Mining Foreman Links. I'm much more interested in finding a way to deliver those to a small group of Prospects. I can't see if that would best be done by "improving" on the Orca, or having a cruiser-class support ship for mining.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2014-05-04 18:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
the venture is a rookie type frig u get for free from tutorials, and the prospect still sacrifices drones and WCS bonus.

what u have here is better for mining support than the orca in every way AND fits a covert cloak.

either lose the cloak (it can still try the cloaky-mwd trick), or

lose the extra grid for mwd (it can make sacrifices and fit rigs and reactor controls as normal),
lose the extra ore bay and compression bonus and
lose some drones

not even battleships have covert variants, so an orca that covert cloaks is a pretty big deal. maybe they'd make an ORE t3 for mining support, but u dont HAVE to have mining links every time u mine.


or take a cloaky T3 with links and some blockade runners.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Kate Blaze
True Power Capsuleers
#7 - 2014-05-04 18:34:11 UTC
t2 orca == rorqual
Coyote Laughing
#8 - 2014-05-04 18:34:27 UTC
How about giving it some kind of jump capability instead, like the rorqual?

I don't know what CCP was thinking giving it covert cyno capacity though - it's enough that it has a cov ops cloak.

How about changing the Prospect description to read "Can Warp Cloaked" ?

How about putting a 4th high slot in the Orca, regardless, so it can actually use the tractor beam without sacrificing mining boosts?

I don't care so much in my procurer, but if I had 3 beams in a Covetor/Hulk sucking my cap down at an accelerated rate, I wouldn't be very happy if the orca lost the mining capacitor bonus.

The question I have to ask is what role exactly would the T2 Orca serve?

Maybe they should go to 5 high slots and let it jump (mining) ships like a Black Ops battleship?

l8r \o/

Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#9 - 2014-05-04 18:48:49 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
not even battleships have covert variants, so an orca that covert cloaks is a pretty big deal. maybe they'd make an ORE t3 for mining support, but u dont HAVE to have mining links every time u mine.


or take a cloaky T3 with links and some blockade runners.


You're right, of course, that you don't HAVE to have mining links. But I found it amusing that there are covert ways to provide links for all other situations, and now that we have a covert miner we don't have a tailored way to provide links for that.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
t2 orca == rorqual

Until a few days ago, t2 mining == barge. Things change.

I honestly don't know if the answer is something above or below the Orca. But now that we have cloaked mining, cloaked mining support is the next logical step.

Kate Blaze
True Power Capsuleers
#10 - 2014-05-04 18:50:47 UTC
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
not even battleships have covert variants, so an orca that covert cloaks is a pretty big deal. maybe they'd make an ORE t3 for mining support, but u dont HAVE to have mining links every time u mine.


or take a cloaky T3 with links and some blockade runners.


You're right, of course, that you don't HAVE to have mining links. But I found it amusing that there are covert ways to provide links for all other situations, and now that we have a covert miner we don't have a tailored way to provide links for that.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
t2 orca == rorqual

Until a few days ago, t2 mining == barge. Things change.

I honestly don't know if the answer is something above or below the Orca. But now that we have cloaked mining, cloaked mining support is the next logical step.


And since when it is not? They are rebalancing exhumers and barges, but exhumers will still be just better barges... t2 venture is just t2 mining frigate, which is something completely unrelated. No one is going to mine with it instead of exhumer, you are going to use it for different scenarios...
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#11 - 2014-05-04 19:05:29 UTC
Kate Blaze wrote:
And since when it is not? They are rebalancing exhumers and barges, but exhumers will still be just better barges... t2 venture is just t2 mining frigate, which is something completely unrelated. No one is going to mine with it instead of exhumer, you are going to use it for different scenarios...


Thanks. I think you just made the case for the cruiser side of my point.

drillerkiller2004
Brazilian Vultures
Ferrata Victrix
#12 - 2014-05-04 20:30:57 UTC
I'll all for big fat juicy t2 orca targets! Bring them on!
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#13 - 2014-05-04 21:08:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
Quote:
Increase the size of the ore hold and/or add ore compression options.


Larger ore hold + deployable mobile ore compression unit? CCP seems to be going ape over those new mobile structures.

Also, I like the idea of an ORE covert ops cruiser designed to provide links and additional ore/gas storage. Seems right in line with their new stuff, and more likely to make CCP's radar than a covert Orca. Give it the ability to use covert cynos and bridges (but not generate the bridge itself, still need a BLOPS for that), so a BLOPS could either target the booster ship in remote/hostile space and jump in the covert miners, or use a covops as an endpoint and jump in the whole mining crew. Would work well with the BLOPS following them in as security and a way home, too.

Side note, the reason they don't have covert battleships is because of the DPS potential, not because there's something inherently wrong with ships of that size being covert (just DPS of that magnitude being covert). ORE ships, as a rule, don't really do the whole DPS thing, so covert is a lot less of a problem with them.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#14 - 2014-05-04 21:24:58 UTC
Give it the ability to tractor asteroids and give it a deployment mode where it is firing 10 medium lasers and smart bombs.

Then the cost of it would be worth using! 800m for an orca atm and if it is like the jump freighter, its going to be worth 6B. Jump freighters at least have the advantage of NEVER seeing combat... An orca is suppose to be in the belts... 6B in a belt... common now!

Every time that leaves a station in null, ur gonna see an invasion start from one of the other alliances.

I wanna be able to at least kill a catalyst with it...

Also each hulk makes about 30m profit an hour tops... So do the math for 6B * the risk factor and tell me how long you have to mine to get it back...
Octoven
Noir Holdings
#15 - 2014-05-04 21:50:19 UTC
So you want an orca that can covert ops cloak...in essence ninja into a low sec, null sec, or wh cloak and provide links, are you suggesting you get to cloak and run the links too?
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-04 22:14:13 UTC
I really don't see a need for a T2 Orca at the moment... and even if there is a need for a T2 Orca, a Covert Ops cloak on a capital ship of any kind, but especially freighter types, is just a big fat lol. The term OP wouldn't even be enough to cover that.

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Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns
#17 - 2014-05-04 22:18:35 UTC
Except it would be so easy to decloak it makes it utterly useless so I say go for it.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#18 - 2014-05-04 22:54:06 UTC
With the Gate opening up to places unknown I would have to say that more deep space exploratory ships like the Prospect and possible the ORCA II would need to be fitted with Covert Ops Cloaking Systems in order to be better prepared for what is experienced on the other side of the Gate as well as defending against those in New Eden who would....deny us of our right to pursue the unknown.

These are ships that I see...possibly a dream from a source unknown that has reached out across the vast cold of space like the beckoning hand of fate into my mind.

1.Covert-Ops Warp Cloaking Industrials.
2.Modular Mining Vessels.
3.Modular Industrials.
4.Modular Battlecruisers.
5.Modular Battleships.
6.Modular Carriers.

All of these a dream in my mind from a source unknown to me that is just on the other side of the Gate....more powerful.....more capable....colder than the coldest New Eden pilot could ever hope to be.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2014-05-04 23:34:11 UTC
I'm not sure I agree with this vision of what a T2 Orca should look like (the cloak...) but I would like to see a T2 Orca, one that needs to be exposed in belts/anoms and that is worth fielding and fighting to protect.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#20 - 2014-05-05 00:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vivianne Athonille
Daenika wrote:
Also, I like the idea of an ORE covert ops cruiser designed to provide links and additional ore/gas storage. Seems right in line with their new stuff, and more likely to make CCP's radar than a covert Orca. Give it the ability to use covert cynos and bridges (but not generate the bridge itself, still need a BLOPS for that), so a BLOPS could either target the booster ship in remote/hostile space and jump in the covert miners, or use a covops as an endpoint and jump in the whole mining crew. Would work well with the BLOPS following them in as security and a way home, too.


This. I'm not saying that it HAS to be an Orca upgrade, but the Orca is currently the only Industrial Command Ship. There needs to be something else a step up or down the scale to support the Prospect. Something in the lines of the Strategic Cruisers and/or Battlecruisers perhaps, other platforms which can run links.

Octoven wrote:
So you want an orca that can covert ops cloak...in essence ninja into a low sec, null sec, or wh cloak and provide links, are you suggesting you get to cloak and run the links too?


No, of course not. To my knowledge, covert Strategic Cruisers can't run any links while cloaked, so why should this?

TigerXtrm wrote:
I really don't see a need for a T2 Orca at the moment... and even if there is a need for a T2 Orca, a Covert Ops cloak on a capital ship of any kind, but especially freighter types, is just a big fat lol. The term OP wouldn't even be enough to cover that.


Not the first person I've seen mistake an Orca for a capital ship. It's a Command ship, actually.
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