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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Time to extend the skill queue

First post
Author
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2014-05-04 16:42:22 UTC
This thread has basically devolved into new players whining about how they cannot set months and months worth of skills at one time. As I've stated before life issues outside of the game are the players problem, not CCP's. Going out of town for an extended period of time? Take one of the aforementioned steps I've detailed in previous posts in this thread. CCP isn't here to cater to your every whim you sniveling quims. The system was put in place to mitigate SP loss via a 24 hour time frame before your skill ended. Can't make that window? Tough. Bitteret? By definition yes, I guess I am. All I want to point out is even though he stated he wanted an extended queue in this thread a pilot went off to war, which was his particular life choice he still put in place steps to keep his account going. What did that have to do with CCP? not a damn thing.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#62 - 2014-05-04 18:43:47 UTC
Habris wrote:
This thread has basically devolved into new players whining about how they cannot set months and months worth of skills at one time. As I've stated before life issues outside of the game are the players problem, not CCP's. Going out of town for an extended period of time? Take one of the aforementioned steps I've detailed in previous posts in this thread. CCP isn't here to cater to your every whim you sniveling quims. The system was put in place to mitigate SP loss via a 24 hour time frame before your skill ended. Can't make that window? Tough. Bitteret? By definition yes, I guess I am. All I want to point out is even though he stated he wanted an extended queue in this thread a pilot went off to war, which was his particular life choice he still put in place steps to keep his account going. What did that have to do with CCP? not a damn thing.

I am not a new player.

I do, in fact, recall the game BEFORE we had the skill queue.

It turns out the skill queue did not go far enough. I speak from experience to say not having the queue was more than inconvenient, it was nearly game breaking for many players who could not log in as needed.

We still have the same problem.

Yes, the severity is not what it used to be, since it impacts only those who would need to log in during a 24 hour period, rather than at 4 am to avoid losing half a days training time.

But the context is still present.

You cannot train skills you do not have, you still need to get the books from inside the game itself. That is your limiting factor wrapped up with a bow on top.

Executing the launcher app will not make a significant number of players play more. The reports could be seen as backwards.
Players were logging in to play, updating their queue while present, and were leaving if they found nothing to do.
Updating the queue was just something they did so logging in wasn't a total waste of time.
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#63 - 2014-05-04 20:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
Quote:
This thread has basically devolved into new players whining about how they cannot set months and months worth of skills at one time.


I'm not new. I've been playing since '09, nearly half the lifespan of the game thus far (hell, I remember Learning skills). It's still a problem.

Quote:
As I've stated before life issues outside of the game are the players problem, not CCP's.


On the contrary, since it directly affects revenue and player retention, it very much IS CCP's problem. It's not their fault, but it's certainly within the sphere of their concern.

By the same logic, you not getting cell service in the particular area of town you frequent isn't the cell company's fault. You are paying for access to their towers, and frequenting an area out of range of them. It's not their problem.

Except it becomes their problem when you decide to swap to another carrier (like I did in the same situation) that actually has service there.

Quote:
Going out of town for an extended period of time? Take one of the aforementioned steps I've detailed in previous posts in this thread.


Sharing your account info is both against the EULA (stop encouraging disallowed and disciplinable actions!) and very stupid in a game like EVE. Remote desktop clients are a security vulnerability, and there are some (like my brother) who literally cannot install them without getting fired from his job.

And then there's situations like my scouting alt, who's longest skill train available at the moment is an 8-day rank-2 V.

That's all of the options you've provided, and you've yet to provide ANY reason NOT to allow this, other than that you simply don't like it and don't see a use for it personally (which is complete bunk as far as counter-arguments go).

Quote:
CCP isn't here to cater to your every whim you sniveling quims.


And now we've gotten into the ad hominems. We've not made you angry, have we?

Quote:
Bitteret? By definition yes, I guess I am. All I want to point out is even though he stated he wanted an extended queue in this thread a pilot went off to war, which was his particular life choice he still put in place steps to keep his account going. What did that have to do with CCP? not a damn thing.


Except, as above, it DOES have something to do with CCP. Specifically, their frakin bottom line. I myself have canceled my subscription before purely because I couldn't see a reason to log in to the game every 1-3 days to update my skill queue when I didn't have time to play much at all otherwise. That's money out of CCP's pocket, and thus out of the development wallet for this game.
Titan Andronicus
Rookie Mission Tax Haven
#64 - 2014-05-04 21:20:52 UTC
I'm becoming concerned that the thread is now starting to become a flame war.

The arguments and benefits of extending the skill queue have been cogently summarised by many players of different ages.

The rebuttals have failed to put forward an argument against.

This is a feature that is clearly useful, desirable, and I should think easy to implement, and we want this to be taken seriously.

Can I first thank everyone for their input and well-reasoned support. Logic alone should be sufficiently convincing, I don't think we need to silence or discredit the naysayers, especially if they would rather derail the thread to discredit the idea.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#65 - 2014-05-04 21:26:32 UTC
Your right, lets make it 25hrs.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#66 - 2014-05-04 21:37:16 UTC
Titan Andronicus wrote:
I'm becoming concerned that the thread is now starting to become a flame war.

The arguments and benefits of extending the skill queue have been cogently summarised by many players of different ages.

The rebuttals have failed to put forward an argument against.

This is a feature that is clearly useful, desirable, and I should think easy to implement, and we want this to be taken seriously.

Can I first thank everyone for their input and well-reasoned support. Logic alone should be sufficiently convincing, I don't think we need to silence or discredit the naysayers, especially if they would rather derail the thread to discredit the idea.


Of course, each of the naysayers does a wonderful job of bumping this thread to the top.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#67 - 2014-05-04 22:26:16 UTC
Quote:
Of course, each of the naysayers does a wonderful job of bumping this thread to the top.


The irony. Bless their bitter, shriveled hearts. Roll
Pubbie Spy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-05-04 22:28:19 UTC
Habris wrote:
This thread has basically devolved into new players whining about how they cannot set months and months worth of skills at one time. As I've stated before life issues outside of the game are the players problem, not CCP's. Going out of town for an extended period of time? Take one of the aforementioned steps I've detailed in previous posts in this thread. CCP isn't here to cater to your every whim you sniveling quims. The system was put in place to mitigate SP loss via a 24 hour time frame before your skill ended. Can't make that window? Tough. Bitteret? By definition yes, I guess I am. All I want to point out is even though he stated he wanted an extended queue in this thread a pilot went off to war, which was his particular life choice he still put in place steps to keep his account going. What did that have to do with CCP? not a damn thing.


Congratulations, this post perfectly summarises everything wrong with spergs in Eve.

I know the concept may be alien to you, but some people have a life. Insisting that people plan said life around internet spaceships instead of the other way around is ridiculous.

In addition, there is literally no value added by, say, forcing me to log in every 3-4 days to update the skill queue of an afk ishtar alt compared to just buying three plex on day one and queueing up all skills I need to make money from an afk ishtar.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#69 - 2014-05-04 22:38:57 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
Eve is a journey, not a destination. Have that as your outlook, it goes much smoother.


I respectfully disagree.

If EVE were a journey, I would be getting SP for every rat I killed, every rock I mined.

If I had Freighters at level 2, I should be able to get 20% use out of my Freighter instead of waiting until level 5-Advanced Spaceship Command to just fly it. (for example)

Eve is very much "destination" oriented. The only journey is the waiting for the skill queue to tick down.



Eve.....is a destined journey.
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2014-05-05 01:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Habris
I am certainly not angry, I have been laughing hysterically with every post. Maniacally even. Since the skill queue addition there have been threads like these and the minority (read: butthurt) have whined an moaned that the queue needed to be longer. It doesn't matter that you only login to set a skill you still do which adds to the metrics of the game and makes them feel good. It's not like I wouldn't abuse the hell out of the change but the thing is it wont. It hasnt since its implementation which was in 07 I think. The point is its closing on a decade and there STILL isn't a longer queue. Only person in this thread that has an excusable reason to whine is the 2 month old noob. Everyone else is familiar with the system and should just get over it.

Contrary to my alliance mates statement of some having lives and responsibilities, I just got done slaughtering and quartering a hog a family member hit with their van. Any of you swine want some pork?


Edit: I just want to point out this thread has been on the front page at least two days and I bet a dev hasnt even read it let alone post which as I look over the thread real quick..... yup no dev post.. They don't care because it's working as intended
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#71 - 2014-05-05 03:12:05 UTC
Habris wrote:
Edit: I just want to point out this thread has been on the front page at least two days and I bet a dev hasnt even read it let alone post which as I look over the thread real quick..... yup no dev post.. They don't care because it's working as intended

The steam locomotive worked as intended too.
As did the biplane, and the outhouse for toilet needs.

The fact that something works as it was designed to, does not also include that it must also meet the current needs after time passes.

That computer from 10 years ago?
It could play EVE back then.
It worked as intended.

Something can work as intended, and still be obsolete.
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-05-05 03:30:53 UTC
I do believe you have the terms designed and intended confused.

Works as designed: functions properly according to the mechanics.

Works as intended: functions properly according to the concept.
Psychoactive Stimulant
#73 - 2014-05-05 04:25:13 UTC
Solution to "problem" (not really a problem... insert proper amount of sarcasm):

New skill: Skill queue lengthening.

2% per level.

I'm all for it.

I think everyone here would be ok with that.

Except of course the whiny crybabies.

HTFU.
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-05-05 04:36:46 UTC
Psychoactive Stimulant wrote:
Solution to "problem" (not really a problem... insert proper amount of sarcasm):

New skill: Skill queue lengthening.

2% per level.

I'm all for it.

I think everyone here would be ok with that.

Except of course the whiny crybabies.

HTFU.



This. I fully back and support this.
Captain Eliiot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-05-05 04:45:28 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Extend? No ******* way thank you very much, my skill queue finishes in 52 days, 7 hours, 56 minutes and 2 seconds and most certainly does not need to be extended at all.


I want to believe this a troll post, I really do.
Make the queue the size of eve mon ffs CCP if i wanna plan my skills for the entire year in one seating why cant I? The only logical reason a company would have such a short queue for adding skills in would have to be to keep an image of many players online, or to profit from players unable to feed their queues which is pretty low. But I guess when your CCP and hemorrhage money by abandoning 4 year old MMOs and FPS you need that upper hand.
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#76 - 2014-05-05 04:51:30 UTC
Quote:
Edit: I just want to point out this thread has been on the front page at least two days and I bet a dev hasnt even read it let alone post which as I look over the thread real quick..... yup no dev post.. They don't care because it's working as intended


When was the last time you saw a dev post in a thread about idea that they weren't announcing as upcoming in the next patch? Seriously, not posting is NOT an implicit "working as intended".

Your posit of those in favor being the minority is also unbacked. Care to lend any evidence? I suspect you are in the minority here, not I.

Lastly, you've stilli failed to put forth *any* rational damage the game might incur from adding this change. Given that players would benefit from the change, and players would not suffer from the change, why not?!

Except that you're a bittervet that can't stand anyone else having an easier time than you, of course.
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-05-05 05:18:03 UTC
Daenika wrote:
Quote:
Edit: I just want to point out this thread has been on the front page at least two days and I bet a dev hasnt even read it let alone post which as I look over the thread real quick..... yup no dev post.. They don't care because it's working as intended


When was the last time you saw a dev post in a thread about idea that they weren't announcing as upcoming in the next patch? Seriously, not posting is NOT an implicit "working as intended".

Your posit of those in favor being the minority is also unbacked. Care to lend any evidence? I suspect you are in the minority here, not I.

Lastly, you've still failed to put forth *any* rational damage the game might incur from adding this change. Given that players would benefit from the change, and players would not suffer from the change, why not?!

Except that you're a bittervet that can't stand anyone else having an easier time than you, of course.



No it's working as intended because it hasn't changed are even considered for 6-7 years Roll

I'm only the minority here because I'm bored and besides running AFKtar's have little else to do than poke noob's with a stick. Most others probably just don't even bother with these threads anymore.

As far as the damage it could do the economy? I've stated it in a previous response to this annoying request to CCP, I suggest rereading all my posts till you find it. Perhaps something might sink in, I doubt it. Again the skill queue in eve is "Working as intended".

.Accept it.

Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-05-05 05:30:39 UTC
Captain Eliiot wrote:
The only logical reason a company would have such a short queue for adding skills in would have to be to keep an image of many players online, or to profit from players unable to feed their queues which is pretty low. But I guess when your CCP and hemorrhage money by abandoning 4 year old MMOs and FPS you need that upper hand.



Right there, that is a MAJOR reason why you people will never get your "extended" queue. I'll lay it out again.


Besides the probable damage it would do to the character bazaar the main reason why the 24 hour queue has been in effect since its implementation is because CCP wants players to login. It's that simple. They want the metrics, they want to be able to say "We had 80,000+ unique logins on this day". I imagine further stats would follow. As it's been stated by the Pro-extrasuperlongneverhavetoworryaboutsettingaskilleveragain people CCP is getting the sub, why not a longer queue. I ask you people this, Why would CCP care if you carelessly lost SP because you forgot to set a skill? It means more time you would have to pay for to recoup that loss. Again, this time for argument of bitter reality "CCP is getting the sub, why implement a longer queue?"

It's hilarious that y'all are completely ignoring these facts and are simply instituting your own reality where this is a HUGE slight against the players and how dare they upkeep such a terrible system. If these aren't the facts you're asking for keep asking for them I guess and I'll keep responding with the same **** over and over again. It's pretty funny.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#79 - 2014-05-05 07:31:23 UTC
I also have to say no.

This is one of the few games that allows character training offline, most other MMOs require grind to gain SP/XP. Therefore it stands to reason there would be a limit on just how long offline one would be able to train. CCP want people logging in and it was their main reason for the 24 hour limit. As well as char farming and I'm sure other unforeseen issues.

The queue's primary design, was to remove the need for 3 am alarm clock changes and the need to stay online for those short skill changes.
It wasn't ever about extending the time you could be away from the game, which some seem to be losing sight of.

Now Crest may provide us with new avenues in the future, but only time and CCP will tell. One route I would be fine with, is a limited change ability via the web, Say 10 changes per year. Rather than the queue being extended.

More Queue Queue.

Comments on the More Queue Queue blog.

Now there was talk back then that one of the reasons for the queues introduction, was due to the removal of ghost training back in 2008. But I have my doubts, although do remember posts on that subject.

This is after all, CCPs game. They decided and with justification, that the queue was going to be 24 hours. Sure there may be pilots who find themselves unable to log in, to change a skill within that 24 hour time frame. But that's neither CCPs problem, or one that should be resolved through massive increases in the queue length.

Like I said, I'm all for a limited allowance through the crest or a web based system. But I'm against changes to the queue and any ideas for introducing skills to increase it's length.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#80 - 2014-05-05 07:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jezza McWaffle
We've already discussed though that players who log in only to change their skillplan won't be playing anyways. And if they do play when they log in then surely they would log in to play anyway.

There isn't is a single justifiable reason why extending the queue time so people can still set their queues while on holiday is a bad idea. It does hurt CCP's bottom line because if you go away for say 2-3 weeks holiday and you don't have a long skill you want to train then whats the point in staying subscribed for that time?

While the addition of a web based queue is a nice addition its still only available for those who have sufficient mobile devices and also areas where they can connect to the Internet. Please try and do this in Georgia for example without having to cost a bomb on satellites.

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