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Player Owned Customs Offices: Math, Markets and Design Problems

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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#161 - 2011-12-02 05:03:40 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
[quote=pmchem]Oh, and before you brandish 'pubbie' at me, I seem to recall blowing by your alliances pathetic effort at a bubble bath a few weeks ago on a hot little profitable run in nullsec.

Holy crap "bubble bath" is the most pubbie way to refer to a dictor camp that I've probably ever heard or will hear

Also if you're exporting p0s you probably cannot be trusted to dress yourself
Rek Esket
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2011-12-02 05:26:07 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
It's funny from an alliance that couldn't catch a 'pubbie' in their own space.


Was this in Deklein? Delve? Fountain? Fade? Cloud Ring? Pure Blind?

GSF owns 103 systems of Sov and 45 outposts among 6 regions. You should be more specific about which part of our empire you went jaunting through, so that we can fix this dangerous lapse in our security.
Pherick Sjang
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#163 - 2011-12-02 05:35:58 UTC
:effort:
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#164 - 2011-12-02 12:19:34 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
It's funny from an alliance that couldn't catch a 'pubbie' in their own space.


Why would we try to catch you ?
I mean sure if somebody feels like hunting and comes for you, but I cant find the 30 Goons you killed on the KB so I assume you didnt do ****.

Goons always welcome tourists, just remember to check with our customs personel in EC- next time and we get you a better room.
Alisarina
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#165 - 2011-12-02 12:39:55 UTC
is that room surprisingly coffin shaped? If so I want to book a weekend away there! Sounds grand.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#166 - 2011-12-02 14:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Ok, good, enough goons posted for the song to make sense now. Thank you.

Promiscuous Female wrote:

Holy crap "bubble bath" is the most pubbie way to refer to a dictor camp that I've probably ever heard or will hear

Also if you're exporting p0s you probably cannot be trusted to dress yourself



My profits suggest otherwise.

Oh, and, btw: we were calling them 'bubble baths' long before dictors existed, back when you had to swamp a gate with deployables. It came from one of BoB's pilots jumping into a camp in Fountain and saying in local 'WTF is THIS, a bubble bath?' seconds before being podded.

Oh, and the old 'we let you go!' dodge... well...


And why kill 30 goons? I was there to make isk, not waste time.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2011-12-02 16:31:59 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
My profits suggest otherwise.


we already established you're horribly bad at math since you're exporting p0s soooooooooooooo its not like we're going to trust your math on your profits

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2011-12-02 16:51:04 UTC
Exporting p0s?

Why?
You'd need a jump freighter and very little sense

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#169 - 2011-12-02 17:44:33 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Exporting p0s?

Why?
You'd need a jump freighter and very little sense



I'm not, I might point out. I'm just not going to tell them what I did export. I like to keep my isk to myself.
Ragneir
Haul Miners Union
#170 - 2011-12-02 17:58:26 UTC
I'm derpy the care bear. I like magical rainbows, peace and love.

O noes CCP has coded in something that nerfs my high sec income its time to complain!

I fully understand that I would have to group up with pvpers to maintain PI in low or null sec but that screws up with my fluffy vibes and that is a no go.

I could go into a WH but I could run into pirates! Even though WH pirates are not too common I don't want blood on my fur!


So my best resort is to complain about a mechanic that can't get along with my Fluffalicious gameplay. I refuse to adapt to new mechanics so only change low sec and 0.0!
bilingi
Grandeur Illusions
#171 - 2011-12-02 18:32:17 UTC
you are stupid..... ally with low sec pvpers hahahahahaRoll
Ragneir
Haul Miners Union
#172 - 2011-12-02 19:45:12 UTC
Fluf power!. That right it's stupid to pvp to maintain blues. I would never want to risk my ship in low sec. Sure I could join up with some pirate group and what not. That is just a dumb idea. Too much pew pew and work to maintain a dumb planet.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#173 - 2011-12-02 21:46:48 UTC
Wow: stupid troll is stupid.

Again, since Ragnier apparently can't read at all, I'm making isk on this baby. I already have the low sec and nullsec contacts fueling my bank.

And I want it to stop.
Yinzer Haverford
Doomheim
#174 - 2011-12-02 23:57:12 UTC
To get back to the topic at hand, there seem to be some core facts that most would probably agree with:

(a) The old taxes prior to the expansion were so low that they were effectively ignored by anyone doing High Sec PI.

(b) The new taxes are an enormous increase in relation to the old taxes, which is probably driving most of the complaining.

(c) Even if you ignore what the taxes used to be, the new taxes seem fairly high. If you are exporting from a production planet, importing to a factory planet, and then exporting finished goods off of the factory planet, you are going to pay so much in taxes that newer players will probably not have enough ISK lying around to get a profitable start in PI at all.

As a solution, I would suggest allowing skills and/or CONCORD standing to play a role in calculating tax rates when using High Sec COs. We already have the ability to reduce sales taxes through skills and reprocessing taxes by improving our standing with NPC corps. And with the POCOs, better standing also has the potential to reduce the PI taxes (depending on how the POCO is configured). If there was a way to reduce the tax burden one faces with High Sec PI -- instead of it being locked in for everyone at the same level -- the system would both conform to the rest of the game and eliminate most of the complaining.

Just an idea.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#175 - 2011-12-03 00:03:22 UTC
Yinzer Haverford wrote:
To get back to the topic at hand, there seem to be some core facts that most would probably agree with:

(a) The old taxes prior to the expansion were so low that they were effectively ignored by anyone doing High Sec PI.

(b) The new taxes are an enormous increase in relation to the old taxes, which is probably driving most of the complaining.

(c) Even if you ignore what the taxes used to be, the new taxes seem fairly high. If you are exporting from a production planet, importing to a factory planet, and then exporting finished goods off of the factory planet, you are going to pay so much in taxes that newer players will probably not have enough ISK lying around to get a profitable start in PI at all.

As a solution, I would suggest allowing skills and/or CONCORD standing to play a role in calculating tax rates when using High Sec COs. We already have the ability to reduce sales taxes through skills and reprocessing taxes by improving our standing with NPC corps. And with the POCOs, better standing also has the potential to reduce the PI taxes (depending on how the POCO is configured). If there was a way to reduce the tax burden one faces with High Sec PI -- instead of it being locked in for everyone at the same level -- the system would both conform to the rest of the game and eliminate most of the complaining.

Just an idea.



That's actually not a bad idea at all. I'd be fine with it if it was based off the actual market value of the item, say the moving price, so it's harder to manipulate.

I'm not opposed to any tax, just one as lopsidedly in favor of certain people as this one.
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2011-12-03 00:21:49 UTC
Yinzer Haverford wrote:

As a solution, I would suggest allowing skills and/or CONCORD standing to play a role in calculating tax rates when using High Sec COs. We already have the ability to reduce sales taxes through skills and reprocessing taxes by improving our standing with NPC corps.


Your solution is basically just to reduce taxes, because that's what the end result would be. Which would re-introduce the gameplay/design problems which taxes are fixing. POCOs are here to stay -- highsec is low risk and therefore should be low reward, as repeatedly stated by the devs. It's time to adjust.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#177 - 2011-12-03 01:05:26 UTC
pmchem wrote:

Your solution is basically just to reduce taxes, because that's what the end result would be. Which would re-introduce the gameplay/design problems which taxes are fixing. POCOs are here to stay -- highsec is low risk and therefore should be low reward, as repeatedly stated by the devs. It's time to adjust.


I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.

(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2011-12-03 01:33:03 UTC
Why would it be necessary? Are you afraid it won't be priced to allow hisec to compete at some level?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Yinzer Haverford
Doomheim
#179 - 2011-12-03 01:38:06 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.

(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.)


Exactly. Taxes should be generally higher in High Sec, and they should be substantially higher than they used to be before the expansion dropped. But if you give people some means of reducing this tax burden by training skills or building standing -- as we can already do with sales tax, broker fees, and refining taxes -- it would at least allow them to feel empowered to do something about it.

It wouldn't have to be a huge drop in the tax rate. I would personally favor something a bit stronger than a 15% reduction. Maybe 25%-30%. But the exact number isn't nearly as important as the overall concept.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#180 - 2011-12-03 01:39:46 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
[
I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.

(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.)



I agree, this idea has merit. It's not the counterweight I would like to see against a Alliance dominated market, but allows players to work around it.


IIRC wasn't there talk of introducing Smuggling to the game? I think that would be an excellent way to introduce this, since it is, after all, getting around the revenue men.. or Concord, in this case...