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Alpha Jita 4-4.
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Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-05-02 22:50:01 UTC
So, following the "you can destroy anything, nowhere is safe, you lose everything" patch, how many maelstroms/tornados/whatever would it take (do you think) to pop the Jita 4-4 station.
Noriko Mai
#2 - 2014-05-02 22:52:34 UTC
It was just for marketing and hype. Later in the stream CCP Seagul said "Everything player build should be destructible"

Calm down.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#3 - 2014-05-02 22:55:51 UTC
Good luck storming the castle!!

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4 - 2014-05-02 22:56:39 UTC
You guys should keep quiet about what Seagul said, and let all of these guys go shoot a station. Concordoken ftw.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#5 - 2014-05-02 22:57:00 UTC
Burn Jita would only last a day.





But the tears would be EPIC.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-05-02 22:57:52 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Burn Jita would only last a day.





But the tears would be EPIC.



Conquer Jita 2015.
Dominus Tempus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-05-02 22:58:08 UTC
People overhype and the first thing they do is jump on the forums and post about things they clearly don't understand.

Stations in High-sec are not going to become destroyable. That's just asinine. The game would die, regardless of the blatant fools who claim otherwise.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-05-02 22:59:14 UTC
Based on current player-built stations, more people than Jita can support.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#9 - 2014-05-02 23:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
A station is what, 100 million points? A BC can get out 30,000 before concord shows, so that would be 3333 of them. Say 1000 players shooting, redocking, waiting out the timer, repeating 3 or 4 times. No more station.

I'm sure my numbers are off, but you get the idea. If this went live, Jita would not last one hour.

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Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-05-02 23:03:49 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
A station is what, 100 million points? A BC can get out 30,000 before concord shows, so that would be 3333 of them. Say 1000 players shooting, redocking, waiting out the timer, repeating 3 or 4 times. No more station.

I'm sure my numbers are off , but you get the idea.



I wonder if you will be able to loot Jita 4-4.
Lila Merle
Paper Cats
#11 - 2014-05-02 23:09:25 UTC
Cyoban wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
A station is what, 100 million points? A BC can get out 30,000 before concord shows, so that would be 3333 of them. Say 1000 players shooting, redocking, waiting out the timer, repeating 3 or 4 times. No more station.

I'm sure my numbers are off , but you get the idea.



I wonder if you will be able to loot Jita 4-4.


With the amount of time dilation I'd be surprised if you'd finish off the station before reset.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-05-02 23:09:37 UTC
... was waiting for the lemmings to storm Jita and die painfully... now, it's going to be a ****-poor summer afterall. Sigh. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-05-02 23:10:43 UTC
Lila Merle wrote:
Cyoban wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
A station is what, 100 million points? A BC can get out 30,000 before concord shows, so that would be 3333 of them. Say 1000 players shooting, redocking, waiting out the timer, repeating 3 or 4 times. No more station.

I'm sure my numbers are off , but you get the idea.



I wonder if you will be able to loot Jita 4-4.


With the amount of time dilation I'd be surprised if you'd finish off the station before reset.



I think it would be fun though. You could redistribute a lot of wealth!
Pix Severus
Empty You
#14 - 2014-05-02 23:16:15 UTC
I'd imagine that in just a couple of days, every station in highsec would be gone.

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Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-05-02 23:23:34 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
I'd imagine that in just a couple of days, every station in highsec would be gone.


Lol
IDGAD
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-03 03:05:13 UTC
All player created outposts are 350,000,000 EHP and need to go through two reinforced levels. Assuming NPC stations are of similar EHP without timers, you have about 10 seconds before concord shows up in a 1.0 system. You would effectively need 35,000,000 DPS minimum, or around 50,000,000 DPS to be safe. A T2 gun (lol expensive) artil tornado gets one shot off and deals 11 K damage while a blaster brutix deals about 8000 damage before it does in a 1.0 system (with no concord on field at start). That means you would need around 31,818 Tornados sacrificed in the name of killing a highsec station in a 1.0 system. Literally the WHOLE server would have to be crammed into a single system to gank the station. It's not going to happen. If you ganked sequentially one after the other, you would have to deal with concord. If you tried pulling concord off the station, it would take a lot longer to pull off and CCP would probably slap you all and say "no, bad piwates". Not to mention if you used a descent amount of people for such a gank to be done in waves, you would need around 5,000 people. Assuming you occupied the whole 2,000 person JITA cap, you would have to make 15 gank runs or more. Not to mention concord warping in would probably crash the node.

TL;DR

EHP of outpost/station is 350 mill.
Highest damage per 10 second gank is a 11 K volley tornado.
At 11 K, you would need nearly 32,000 tornados.
Jita node can only hold 2,000 people.
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis
The Lost Drone Society
#17 - 2014-05-03 03:34:06 UTC
IDGAD wrote:
All player created outposts are 350,000,000 EHP and need to go through two reinforced levels. Assuming NPC stations are of similar EHP without timers, you have about 10 seconds before concord shows up in a 1.0 system. You would effectively need 35,000,000 DPS minimum, or around 50,000,000 DPS to be safe. A T2 gun (lol expensive) artil tornado gets one shot off and deals 11 K damage while a blaster brutix deals about 8000 damage before it does in a 1.0 system (with no concord on field at start). That means you would need around 31,818 Tornados sacrificed in the name of killing a highsec station in a 1.0 system. Literally the WHOLE server would have to be crammed into a single system to gank the station. It's not going to happen. If you ganked sequentially one after the other, you would have to deal with concord. If you tried pulling concord off the station, it would take a lot longer to pull off and CCP would probably slap you all and say "no, bad piwates". Not to mention if you used a descent amount of people for such a gank to be done in waves, you would need around 5,000 people. Assuming you occupied the whole 2,000 person JITA cap, you would have to make 15 gank runs or more. Not to mention concord warping in would probably crash the node.

TL;DR

EHP of outpost/station is 350 mill.
Highest damage per 10 second gank is a 11 K volley tornado.
At 11 K, you would need nearly 32,000 tornados.
Jita node can only hold 2,000 people.


Upvote for the math.

I'm inclined to side with you. Those posts I've seen about attacking/blowing up High sec stations seem to leave out Concord/Empire Navies (the odds of them letting people shoot at their stuff is kinda like me hopping over to Goon Sec in my Domi and shooting at one of their outposts without intervention) .

BUT! A small part of me thinks that the players will find a way. Long ago and in another game (EQ), A game company designed a Mob that was suppose to be unkillable, and killing it wasn't even part of the story line. Then, a few people got together, worked out a plan, invited a few hundred people to the fun, and proved Sony wrong. And the best thing about it, out of the 50 or so servers EQ had at the time, all pretty much carebear, only one was complete PVP...and that's the one that killed The Sleeper Pirate

http://www.albrandes.com/skden/articles/sleeper.asp a brief right up of it, there were better around, just can't find any atm.

TL;DR : yeah, it's probably not feasible, but never disbelieve in players ability to find ways to prove the Devs wrong.

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-05-03 03:38:40 UTC
Just send in multiple waves and be prepared to reship, seems like alphaing is out of the question.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#19 - 2014-05-03 04:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
I wish people would get the quote right. It was a vision statement, not a feature ready to ship.

CCP Seagull's explanation of the earlier statement was "anything you can build should be possible to destroy". That was also a vision statement rather than a feature ready to ship (eg. PI colonies). It won't develop to a feature that allows us to destroy NPC stations. Imagine the fleets the empires would throw against us, on top of Concord.

Good luck trying to blow up 4-4 though. Set safety to red and go for it. You'll be Concorded quickly and for all the people that try to do something so stupid, I hope they change Concordekken mechanics to pod as well.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-05-03 04:31:54 UTC
Why the hell would I want to destroy an outpost? I'd have to build another one in its place if I wanted one.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
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