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Questions for CCP: Concerning the fallout from the Dust/Legion annouce

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Thead Enco
HR..
#101 - 2014-05-03 01:25:02 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Still confused on how porting and working on Legion some how means the end of DUST on PS3. In a Announcement on the DUST website states that they will both have teams working on them respectively. If anything, in the way DUST paved the way for Legion, the Legion team could come up with things that can be incorporated into DUST and vica versa.

Again didn't see the stream so not entirely sure what was said, but seems like it is unnecessary paranoia.


Because they don't even know if they will be able to transfer characters over. And also it'd be like incarna, except instead of WiS. You get EVE 2.0, but it's on Mac OS only.

They took the playerbase that supported the game and kept it alive. And threw them under the Madrugar. Moving it to a different platform without even the promise of the time you spent being worth anything.

So....there's absolutely nothing from CCP stating that they're halting work on dust514? All of the characters you have on dust will remain in dust, what's the problem?

If legion is a separate entity from dust, why should there be any character transfer at all? If I *shudder* buy Call of Duty for the PS4 and then for the PC, I won't get to transfer all of my unlocked weapons/killstreaks/prestiges/whatever from PS4 to PC. Different platform and all that.

We were promised integration of dust/eve. We were promised PVE, a player market, all sorts of things. And we put up with all the problems of dust, in the hopes that one day we would get to have what we were promised. If we are to believe that is still going to happen, CCP needs to EXPLICITLY say so. They need to be transparent about this now.



Obama did the same. CCP is a company not a fricking charity making Dust on the PS3 was one of the greatest mistakes made since T20. Hope prevails yet again Thank you CCP i am going to play the **** out of Legion.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2014-05-03 01:31:14 UTC
Aria Jimbojohnson wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:


Do you really think they are going to keep TWO FPSs running in tandem with eve, developing BOTH of them?
The majority of the dust community doesn't. And nothing about the keynote gave them any hope for such.
This is something that CCP needs to clarify.


From a base level they are the same FPS just on 2 different platforms, much different from 2 completely different FPSs. Granted some things they might wanna do on PC they can't do on console. This DOES NOT MEAN that PS3 will be scrapped completely for the PC overlord version. It just might mean that the PS3 version will be scaled down a bit from the PC version, possibly due to limitations.

It is too early for the sky to be falling in regards to this announcement.


They scrapped the EVE Classic Client because it was too hard to keep up with 2 clients, and all that was was a graphics/engine difference. Yeah, DUST is dead.

DUST is still crap that needs a ton of support and changes to even be made decent. By shifting their focus to the new game, even if they aren't officially closing the servers, they are effectively killing the game, because there is zero chance now that it will actually evolve into the product that was envisioned.

Perfectly stated.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#103 - 2014-05-03 01:35:03 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Perfectly stated.

Indeed... CCP thought they could land a big hin with the console market, but they underestimated how different it would be to make a decent game there, let alone keep it running and link it with EVE.

The project was pretty muh dead on arrival...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
mkint
#104 - 2014-05-03 02:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


This. This is the truth.

Are you telling us you didn't enjoy playing it?

I bought Nuclear Dawn a long time ago, played it for 2 or 3 weeks, enjoyed the hell out of it, and then stopped playing. I don't even know why I stopped... it was so much fun. (Superior tactics beats superior numbers, even when the teams were at 2 vs 10+.) I spent the $ on the game, got my enjoyment out of it for a short time, and I feel like I got great value.

If you aren't enjoying dust, and feel like you've thrown away good money after bad... well, that's called a "sunk cost fallacy." Stop it. But if you're enjoying it for what it is, power to you. Keep at it. You even still have plenty of time to keep enjoying it for while it lasts.

What's more concerning is this... this announcement alone will cost CCP a whole ton of trust. If they closed down Dust today and said "ok, dust is done, it's legion from now on," I'd say screw that, not gonna touch that mess. But they still have time to handle the transition. They have a chance to do whatever basic playability bug fixes on dust, even if it's not going to be any new feature development. Hell, even any level design, balance tweaks, asset creation, all that will probably hit dust before legion is even launched. But, if they close dust and launch legion, and legion isn't the thing everybody's been dreaming about since the day everyone was disappointed with the "console only" announcement before everyone felt betrayed with the "sony only" announcement... well, then legion will be DOA as well.

As it stands, I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if the old dust bunnies get huge huge huge advantages with the legion transition. And damn, you guys will have earned it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Adunh Slavy
#105 - 2014-05-03 02:30:52 UTC
I feel the pain of the Dustbunnies, I do. But I can not say it is a big surprise.

Now on to the next thing - Hey CCP, stop making assumptions about prices. Just let players in Legion build and make things, let full ISK transfers happen between Eve and Legion and let humans figure out the prices for things for xmass sake.

Find me any Phd Economist, from any discipline or school, that claims to know what the price of anything should be, and I will show you a BS artist.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2014-05-03 02:42:56 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
CCP made an aurum event right before they made this announcement, knowing full well that some of the players of dust will not be able to make the move from PS3 to PC. If that isn't a cash grab, I don't know what is.

The event gave long term SP rewards, at the cost of real money. Long term rewards that some players will never see.

If dust was a legion beta, they needed to be straightforward with their customers.

I hope there will be no Microtransaction, Aurum events and such sh.it in Legion. Solid FPS with a deep connection to EVE. Free for EVE subs. One billion percent success!

Edit: Maybe add three new character slots for Legion Chars to EVE accounts for people that play Legion.


So you want the game to be free with no microtransactions? Who do you think is going to pay for it? The game fairy?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#107 - 2014-05-03 03:07:16 UTC
Man, I would not want to be a Dust 514 developer wandering the streets of Reykjavik this weekend... Can we say "low profile"?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-05-03 03:17:51 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
The event gave long term SP rewards, at the cost of real money.

I am more concerned about what this means for EVE.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2014-05-03 04:37:25 UTC
mkint wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


This. This is the truth.

Are you telling us you didn't enjoy playing it?

I bought Nuclear Dawn a long time ago, played it for 2 or 3 weeks, enjoyed the hell out of it, and then stopped playing. I don't even know why I stopped... it was so much fun. (Superior tactics beats superior numbers, even when the teams were at 2 vs 10+.) I spent the $ on the game, got my enjoyment out of it for a short time, and I feel like I got great value.

If you aren't enjoying dust, and feel like you've thrown away good money after bad... well, that's called a "sunk cost fallacy." Stop it. But if you're enjoying it for what it is, power to you. Keep at it. You even still have plenty of time to keep enjoying it for while it lasts.

What's more concerning is this... this announcement alone will cost CCP a whole ton of trust. If they closed down Dust today and said "ok, dust is done, it's legion from now on," I'd say screw that, not gonna touch that mess. But they still have time to handle the transition. They have a chance to do whatever basic playability bug fixes on dust, even if it's not going to be any new feature development. Hell, even any level design, balance tweaks, asset creation, all that will probably hit dust before legion is even launched. But, if they close dust and launch legion, and legion isn't the thing everybody's been dreaming about since the day everyone was disappointed with the "console only" announcement before everyone felt betrayed with the "sony only" announcement... well, then legion will be DOA as well.

As it stands, I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if the old dust bunnies get huge huge huge advantages with the legion transition. And damn, you guys will have earned it.


The big selling point of dust was the potential and the promise of it. As a game in and of itself it is worse than nearly every other mainstream fps on the market.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2014-05-03 04:37:44 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dusties have essentially paid to play a beta for a game

Nobody paid to play DUST.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2014-05-03 04:55:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dusties have essentially paid to play a beta for a game

Nobody paid to play DUST.

It was very common among closed/open beta vets to buy a few SP boosters here or there. The price added up quickly.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2014-05-03 04:59:38 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dusties have essentially paid to play a beta for a game

Nobody paid to play DUST.

It was very common among closed/open beta vets to buy a few SP boosters here or there. The price added up quickly.

Was it required to buy them to play? Nope.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#113 - 2014-05-03 05:37:23 UTC
I understand the reason why they are doing this, but this is just a horrible way of breaking the news to the Dust players.

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#114 - 2014-05-03 05:54:13 UTC
I personally see this turning around and biting them in the ass when Legion does come out. Which has implications for the company. Which in turn has implications for you and me, my fellow eve players.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2014-05-03 06:08:33 UTC
calaretu wrote:
I understand the reason why they are doing this, but this is just a horrible way of breaking the news to the Dust players.

It makes perfect sense from a business perspective, just they did nothing to alleviate the concerns that the dust community and the pilots that fly for them have.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#116 - 2014-05-03 06:22:39 UTC
i understood that chars will be ported to new game possibly with skill points and or some kind of compensation what exactly is a problem here?

ps3 belong to history as in time that past away,they didn't release dust as beta for legion 2 years ago they just realized they failed and moved on.

ftp shooter went bad big whoop.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2014-05-03 06:23:24 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
i understood that chars will be ported to new game possibly with skill points and or some kind of compensation what exactly is a problem here?

"Possibly"

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
The Legends In The Game
#118 - 2014-05-03 06:39:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Droidyk
dust is not discontinued, it is still there as a good game for console players, the thing is it would never ever become the real EVE game on that platform. PC is the only way to go, to make all what EVE Universe is about. It's delicate complexity, deep baskstory, lore and scale. This would never happen on PS3 which was a dying platform from the start dust was in beta. No freedom, so many limitations, no dream ever would be accomplished there.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#119 - 2014-05-03 06:41:19 UTC
mkint wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


This. This is the truth.

Are you telling us you didn't enjoy playing it?

I bought Nuclear Dawn a long time ago, played it for 2 or 3 weeks, enjoyed the hell out of it, and then stopped playing. I don't even know why I stopped... it was so much fun. (Superior tactics beats superior numbers, even when the teams were at 2 vs 10+.) I spent the $ on the game, got my enjoyment out of it for a short time, and I feel like I got great value.

If you aren't enjoying dust, and feel like you've thrown away good money after bad... well, that's called a "sunk cost fallacy." Stop it. But if you're enjoying it for what it is, power to you. Keep at it. You even still have plenty of time to keep enjoying it for while it lasts.

What's more concerning is this... this announcement alone will cost CCP a whole ton of trust. If they closed down Dust today and said "ok, dust is done, it's legion from now on," I'd say screw that, not gonna touch that mess. But they still have time to handle the transition. They have a chance to do whatever basic playability bug fixes on dust, even if it's not going to be any new feature development. Hell, even any level design, balance tweaks, asset creation, all that will probably hit dust before legion is even launched. But, if they close dust and launch legion, and legion isn't the thing everybody's been dreaming about since the day everyone was disappointed with the "console only" announcement before everyone felt betrayed with the "sony only" announcement... well, then legion will be DOA as well.

As it stands, I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if the old dust bunnies get huge huge huge advantages with the legion transition. And damn, you guys will have earned it.

Quite clearly the best post on any of the related threads on the matter.
Well spoken.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
The Legends In The Game
#120 - 2014-05-03 06:42:43 UTC
calaretu wrote:
I understand the reason why they are doing this, but this is just a horrible way of breaking the news to the Dust players.


Not dust players, console players who doesn't understand a thing about EVE Universe, plus they ll still have a solid game.