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Questions for CCP: Concerning the fallout from the Dust/Legion annouce

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Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2014-05-03 00:02:12 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Still confused on how porting and working on Legion some how means the end of DUST on PS3. In a Announcement on the DUST website states that they will both have teams working on them respectively. If anything, in the way DUST paved the way for Legion, the Legion team could come up with things that can be incorporated into DUST and vica versa.

Again didn't see the stream so not entirely sure what was said, but seems like it is unnecessary paranoia.


Because they don't even know if they will be able to transfer characters over. And also it'd be like incarna, except instead of WiS. You get EVE 2.0, but it's on Mac OS only.

They took the playerbase that supported the game and kept it alive. And threw them under the Madrugar. Moving it to a different platform without even the promise of the time you spent being worth anything.

So....there's absolutely nothing from CCP stating that they're halting work on dust514? All of the characters you have on dust will remain in dust, what's the problem?

If legion is a separate entity from dust, why should there be any character transfer at all? If I *shudder* buy Call of Duty for the PS4 and then for the PC, I won't get to transfer all of my unlocked weapons/killstreaks/prestiges/whatever from PS4 to PC. Different platform and all that.

We were promised integration of dust/eve. We were promised PVE, a player market, all sorts of things. And we put up with all the problems of dust, in the hopes that one day we would get to have what we were promised. If we are to believe that is still going to happen, CCP needs to EXPLICITLY say so. They need to be transparent about this now.
Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2014-05-03 00:02:56 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


This. This is the truth.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Deepwater Hooligans
#83 - 2014-05-03 00:04:16 UTC
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:

To me its just a REALLY big screw up on CCP. There are people who travelled to Iceland for DUST 514. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159617

There is one of them.


That's just...disgusting. Funding a trip to any convention isn't cheap, especially when you're traveling internationally. And that guy didn't just go himself, he brought his family. I don't think there's any clearer indication of how dedicated he was to Dust.

As a two-time Eve Vegas attendee, I would be absolutely gutted if the event was hyped specifically to me, only to find out Eve was being scrapped. If they knew they were scrapping Dust, why in the hell would they specifically hype the event to Dust players? I really wish I had a Sony ID to log into that forum, just so I could offer my sympathy and support to that dude.

I've never once played Dust, but I hope that guy knows he's got support on this side of the universe. If anyone here has the ability to post there, please pass this on on behalf of myself and other Eve-only players who are just as appalled as I am. F***ing shame on you, CCP.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#84 - 2014-05-03 00:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

So....there's absolutely nothing from CCP stating that they're halting work on dust514? All of the characters you have on dust will remain in dust, what's the problem?

If legion is a separate entity from dust, why should there be any character transfer at all? If I *shudder* buy Call of Duty for the PS4 and then for the PC, I won't get to transfer all of my unlocked weapons/killstreaks/prestiges/whatever from PS4 to PC. Different platform and all that.

We were promised integration of dust/eve. We were promised PVE, a player market, all sorts of things. And we put up with all the problems of dust, in the hopes that one day we would get to have what we were promised. If we are to believe that is still going to happen, CCP needs to EXPLICITLY say so. They need to be transparent about this now.

Almost every single developer on the face of the planet has, at one point or another, made promises they couldn't or wouldn't keep (e.g. the "radiant" A.I. in Bethesda games). It's par for the course, and tbh CCP has raised it to an art form.

I could give you a laundry list of features that never made it into Eve, or fixes that were promised but never done. Deal with it.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#85 - 2014-05-03 00:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:

They didn't show us anything that confirmed their commitment to dust. There is no way we could interpret it as anything but that they aren't. I just don't see them working on both simultaneously... They have had enough problems getting ONE of them to work, nevermind two.


Still doesn't mean that PS3 version is canned. As I stated while they maybe working on Legion, they still have a crew working on Dust. Some improvements from the former can and might be used on the latter.

The simple fact that CCP has decided to even port over to the PC shows there is still hope for the PS3 version and the IP in general. Shockingly enough there are some who prefer console over PC and some who prefer PC over console, so having the ability to market to both can be beneficial

I see how this can be interpreted wrong, but still not enough to assume CCP is axing Dust.

However now DUST players know how many Eve players feel when it comes to FanFest over the past few years. Most keynotes and features where about DUST or about ways of linking DUST to Eve. Which is also ironic because it sounds like CCP pissed in both bases cheerios by screwing over Eve and not delivering to Dust.

Wesley Otsdarva wrote:


Because they don't even know if they will be able to transfer characters over. And also it'd be like incarna, except instead of WiS. You get EVE 2.0, but it's on Mac OS only.

They took the playerbase that supported the game and kept it alive. And threw them under the Madrugar. Moving it to a different platform without even the promise of the time you spent being worth anything.


They don't know because there is probably no plans to shut down the PS3 version. The PC version is separate from the PS3 version in regards to the teams working on them.

This all still sounds like paranoia simply because CCP didn't pay as much attention to Dust as they wanted. Not that Dust is being shut down.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-05-03 00:19:03 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Still confused on how porting and working on Legion some how means the end of DUST on PS3. In a Announcement on the DUST website states that they will both have teams working on them respectively. If anything, in the way DUST paved the way for Legion, the Legion team could come up with things that can be incorporated into DUST and vica versa.

Again didn't see the stream so not entirely sure what was said, but seems like it is unnecessary paranoia.


Because they don't even know if they will be able to transfer characters over. And also it'd be like incarna, except instead of WiS. You get EVE 2.0, but it's on Mac OS only.

They took the playerbase that supported the game and kept it alive. And threw them under the Madrugar. Moving it to a different platform without even the promise of the time you spent being worth anything.

So....there's absolutely nothing from CCP stating that they're halting work on dust514? All of the characters you have on dust will remain in dust, what's the problem?

If legion is a separate entity from dust, why should there be any character transfer at all? If I *shudder* buy Call of Duty for the PS4 and then for the PC, I won't get to transfer all of my unlocked weapons/killstreaks/prestiges/whatever from PS4 to PC. Different platform and all that.

We were promised integration of dust/eve. We were promised PVE, a player market, all sorts of things. And we put up with all the problems of dust, in the hopes that one day we would get to have what we were promised. If we are to believe that is still going to happen, CCP needs to EXPLICITLY say so. They need to be transparent about this now.

I'm pretty sure they were very transparent, and explicitly so. They said they would continue building on dust for the forseable future. Will that forseable future be "less than a year from now"? Possibly, but that is more towards the fact that the PS3 is on it's way out of the market.

They also said that Legion will not be replacing dust, but rather building from it.

Aaaand you played a Beta, not a released title. I'm sure you havent been in many betas, because of the way your tears flow, but let me just tell you that not a lot of them make it as launch titles, and not all of the ones that do continue with their business model *Ask Tera, they went from P2P to P2WF2P, or MWO*

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2014-05-03 00:19:25 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:

They didn't show us anything that confirmed their commitment to dust. There is no way we could interpret it as anything but that they aren't. I just don't see them working on both simultaneously... They have had enough problems getting ONE of them to work, nevermind two.


Still doesn't mean that PS3 version is canned. As I stated while they maybe working on Legion, they still have a crew working on Dust. Some improvements from the former can and might be used on the latter.

The simple fact that CCP has decided to even port over to the PC shows there is still hope for the PS3 version and the IP in general. Shockingly enough there are some who prefer console over PC and some who prefer PC over console, so having the ability to market to both can be beneficial

I see how this can be interpreted wrong, but still not enough to assume CCP is axing Dust.

However now DUST players know how many Eve players feel when it comes to FanFest over the past few years. Most keynotes and features where about DUST or about ways of linking DUST to Eve. Which is also ironic because it sounds like CCP pissed in both bases cheerios by screwing over Eve and not delivering to Dust.

Wesley Otsdarva wrote:


Because they don't even know if they will be able to transfer characters over. And also it'd be like incarna, except instead of WiS. You get EVE 2.0, but it's on Mac OS only.

They took the playerbase that supported the game and kept it alive. And threw them under the Madrugar. Moving it to a different platform without even the promise of the time you spent being worth anything.


They don't know because there is probably no plans to shut down the PS3 version. The PC version is separate from the PS3 version in regards to the teams working on them.

This all still sounds like paranoia simply because CCP didn't pay as much attention to Dust as they wanted. Not that Dust is being shut down.


Do you really think they are going to keep TWO FPSs running in tandem with eve, developing BOTH of them?
The majority of the dust community doesn't. And nothing about the keynote gave them any hope for such.
This is something that CCP needs to clarify.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2014-05-03 00:21:11 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Still confused on how porting and working on Legion some how means the end of DUST on PS3. In a Announcement on the DUST website states that they will both have teams working on them respectively. If anything, in the way DUST paved the way for Legion, the Legion team could come up with things that can be incorporated into DUST and vica versa.

Again didn't see the stream so not entirely sure what was said, but seems like it is unnecessary paranoia.


Because they don't even know if they will be able to transfer characters over. And also it'd be like incarna, except instead of WiS. You get EVE 2.0, but it's on Mac OS only.

They took the playerbase that supported the game and kept it alive. And threw them under the Madrugar. Moving it to a different platform without even the promise of the time you spent being worth anything.

So....there's absolutely nothing from CCP stating that they're halting work on dust514? All of the characters you have on dust will remain in dust, what's the problem?

If legion is a separate entity from dust, why should there be any character transfer at all? If I *shudder* buy Call of Duty for the PS4 and then for the PC, I won't get to transfer all of my unlocked weapons/killstreaks/prestiges/whatever from PS4 to PC. Different platform and all that.

We were promised integration of dust/eve. We were promised PVE, a player market, all sorts of things. And we put up with all the problems of dust, in the hopes that one day we would get to have what we were promised. If we are to believe that is still going to happen, CCP needs to EXPLICITLY say so. They need to be transparent about this now.

I'm pretty sure they were very transparent, and explicitly so. They said they would continue building on dust for the forseable future. Will that forseable future be "less than a year from now"? Possibly, but that is more towards the fact that the PS3 is on it's way out of the market.

They also said that Legion will not be replacing dust, but rather building from it.

Aaaand you played a Beta, not a released title. I'm sure you havent been in many betas, because of the way your tears flow, but let me just tell you that not a lot of them make it as launch titles, and not all of the ones that do continue with their business model *Ask Tera, they went from P2P to P2WF2P, or MWO*


Dust was "released" last year my friend. I played the beta as well.

In other news, Sony is doing refunds for AUR bought within the last few months, and I have heard of cases were they are doing a full refund for all dust related purchases over the years. I am going to call myself and see how that is going
Noriko Mai
#89 - 2014-05-03 00:23:21 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
[..]We were promised [..] we were promised [..] They need to be transparent about this now.

Are you new here? We were promised WIS, ship skins, player run stations, player build stargates, modular POSes, dynamic missions, a reliable API, [insert random brain farts] from CCP marketing...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#90 - 2014-05-03 00:23:51 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:


In other news, Sony is doing refunds for AUR bought within the last few months, and I have heard of cases were they are doing a full refund for all dust related purchases over the years. I am going to call myself and see how that is going


Probably not much of a dent in their wallet to have to give refunds out to a few dozen players. Big smile

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#91 - 2014-05-03 00:24:45 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:


Do you really think they are going to keep TWO FPSs running in tandem with eve, developing BOTH of them?
The majority of the dust community doesn't. And nothing about the keynote gave them any hope for such.
This is something that CCP needs to clarify.


From a base level they are the same FPS just on 2 different platforms, much different from 2 completely different FPSs. Granted some things they might wanna do on PC they can't do on console. This DOES NOT MEAN that PS3 will be scrapped completely for the PC overlord version. It just might mean that the PS3 version will be scaled down a bit from the PC version, possibly due to limitations.

It is too early for the sky to be falling in regards to this announcement.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#92 - 2014-05-03 00:25:22 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dusties have essentially paid to play a beta for a game on a different console that they may or may not get a transfer to, and might not even be able to play.


i fail to see the issue, have you been on steam? seems that's how games companies operate these days "give us some money for "early access""


Agreed. The so-called "Early Access" model is no longer what it use to be. It now should say "Early (Risky) Investment", with a small-print note pointing out that over half of games nowadays that start out as "Early Access" will eventually either fail or at some point drastically slowed/stalled development.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#93 - 2014-05-03 00:25:59 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:

Dust was "released" last year my friend. I played the beta as well.

In other news, Sony is doing refunds for AUR bought within the last few months, and I have heard of cases were they are doing a full refund for all dust related purchases over the years. I am going to call myself and see how that is going


Oh, please have a link with proof of that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2014-05-03 00:26:25 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
-snip-

I'm going to assume you own several gamespy supported games that just went offline, because they decided they weren't proffitable anymore.

Are you going to demand refunds or some sort of compensation as well?

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#95 - 2014-05-03 00:26:41 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
[..]We were promised [..] we were promised [..] They need to be transparent about this now.

Are you new here? We were promised WIS, ship skins, player run stations, player build stargates, modular POSes, dynamic missions, a reliable API, [insert random brain farts] from CCP marketing...

Ring mining, destructible outposts, a 6th T3 subsystem, etc.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2014-05-03 00:34:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:

Dust was "released" last year my friend. I played the beta as well.

In other news, Sony is doing refunds for AUR bought within the last few months, and I have heard of cases were they are doing a full refund for all dust related purchases over the years. I am going to call myself and see how that is going


Oh, please have a link with proof of that.

I don't know if you can link a phone call? Can you please explain how I would do that?
General Nusense
Doomheim
#97 - 2014-05-03 00:37:20 UTC
ITT people crying about how CCP will continue to develop DUST514 for the next two years even though the system DUST514 is on will not get any new games after this winter.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2014-05-03 00:49:00 UTC
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=728
I don't know if I am allowed to link the dust forums here, but that is a general snapshot of how the community feels about the recent changes.

It is rare that the forums accurately represent the community, but in this case, the forums is even MORE civil than what is going on elsewhere(They are banning dissenters).
Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2014-05-03 00:50:16 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:


Do you really think they are going to keep TWO FPSs running in tandem with eve, developing BOTH of them?
The majority of the dust community doesn't. And nothing about the keynote gave them any hope for such.
This is something that CCP needs to clarify.


From a base level they are the same FPS just on 2 different platforms, much different from 2 completely different FPSs. Granted some things they might wanna do on PC they can't do on console. This DOES NOT MEAN that PS3 will be scrapped completely for the PC overlord version. It just might mean that the PS3 version will be scaled down a bit from the PC version, possibly due to limitations.

It is too early for the sky to be falling in regards to this announcement.


They scrapped the EVE Classic Client because it was too hard to keep up with 2 clients, and all that was was a graphics/engine difference. Yeah, DUST is dead.

DUST is still crap that needs a ton of support and changes to even be made decent. By shifting their focus to the new game, even if they aren't officially closing the servers, they are effectively killing the game, because there is zero chance now that it will actually evolve into the product that was envisioned.
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-05-03 01:07:45 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:

We were promised integration of dust/eve. We were promised PVE, a player market, all sorts of things. And we put up with all the problems of dust, in the hopes that one day we would get to have what we were promised. If we are to believe that is still going to happen, CCP needs to EXPLICITLY say so. They need to be transparent about this now.


Dude you seriously need to get a grip of your emotions. CCP has no obligation to you or any other to keep ANY of their projects alive. When you pay for things in a game you are paying for items to be used in that moment. SP boost is good now just as it will be for a yet to be determined amount of time. The fact of the matter is by virtue of them allowing you to gain SP faster doesn't guarantee they will keep the servers running or keep developing.

There are so many people that are so confused with how transactions work. Unless you have a written contract stating future deliverables you are buying things in an AS-IS state.

I see you keep saying things such as everyone hated the game and only stayed for the community. Then why do you care they are moving the platform? You can still be part of the community for free when it moves to PC, just like Poetic Stanziel.

All this rage about the game sucking, crap promises, etc.; yet for some reason you paid for it, you made it part of your life, and it affects you so much you choose to whine about the UNKNOWN VARIABLES! The simple fact of the matter is this. There is a successor coming and CCP doesn't have/want to share the information at this exact moment. All that matters is the game that you love to hate is STILL online, the items you bought are STILL usable. Go play and proceed with caution! Which is the same advice for any game that relies on technology you don't control.