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Star Wars Casting: Where are the Women ??

Author
stoicfaux
#41 - 2014-05-01 03:27:18 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
"Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret" the movie. No? Well, why not?

edit: I keep forgetting there are youngsters present: from wikipedia
Quote:
Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. is a 1970 book by Judy Blume, typically categorized as a young adult novel, about a girl in sixth grade who grew up without a religious affiliation. Margaret's mother is Christian and her father is Jewish, and the novel explores her quest for a single religion. Margaret also confronts many other pre-teen female issues, such as buying her first bra, having her first period, coping with belted sanitary napkins (changed to adhesive sanitary pads for recent editions of the book), jealousy towards another girl who has developed a womanly figure earlier than other girls, liking boys, and whether to voice her opinion if it differs from those of her friends.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#42 - 2014-05-01 13:26:22 UTC
Webvan wrote:
I'm sure that they have binders of women.
In walks Lindsay Lohan.
In walks Miley Cyrus.
In walks Jennifer Love Hewitt.
In walks Britney Spears.
Welcome to yet another Disney movie!


None of these was ever in a Disney film, except Lindsay Lohan in the rather good "Freaky Friday" remake with Jamie Lee Curtis.

Like the original with Jodie Foster, a great kid's film with a cast led by 2 women (well, one woman and one girl).

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2014-05-01 13:30:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Whenever people try and tell me that "people want this" about that kind of thing (typically while trying to say the Wonder Woman movie should ever see daylight), I point them at Catwoman.


Catwoman did not work as there was no Batman. She doesn't really work well alone as a character. Hollywood Execs were too stupid to realize that.

Now, that was "eye candy" only and absolutely. And they took a financial whacking for it.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#44 - 2014-05-01 13:31:40 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:


I disagree. As bad as Terminator: Salvation was, amongst other films. No one has a right to a film makers script if you are not directly involved in the project. And last time I checked the production of a movie production studio is a private business, not a community organizer project.




Tell that to those who Kickstarted the "Veronica Mars" movie.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#45 - 2014-05-01 13:39:16 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Whenever people try and tell me that "people want this" about that kind of thing (typically while trying to say the Wonder Woman movie should ever see daylight), I point them at Catwoman.


Catwoman did not work as there was no Batman. She doesn't really work well alone as a character. Hollywood Execs were too stupid to realize that.

Now, that was "eye candy" only and absolutely. And they took a financial whacking for it.


See, you're not asking the right questions.

If there really is a market for this kind of thing, why do so many offerings in that vein fall flat on their faces?

I mean, honestly, the first and probably last female action hero to be well received was Ellen Ripley. And even then they sequel'ed it to death.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-05-01 13:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ila Dace
Nissui wrote:
Intellectual property, in this case referring primarily to the gamut of after-Endor novel series.

Do you like Philz? I'm having some Julie's Ultimate this morning.

Morpheus: Intellectual Property is the crock that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
M: Ideas can't be owned.

Now if you want to talk about distribution rights... that's another story.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#47 - 2014-05-01 13:54:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I mean, honestly, the first and probably last female action hero to be well received was Ellen Ripley. And even then they sequel'ed it to death.


Sarah Connor.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#48 - 2014-05-01 13:57:13 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I mean, honestly, the first and probably last female action hero to be well received was Ellen Ripley. And even then they sequel'ed it to death.


Sarah Connor.


In the second movie? Sure, but the whole "seriously mentally ill" thing was a wrench.

In the first movie she spends the entire time running until the last 10 minutes when she finds her spine.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-05-01 14:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Only 51%? I thought it was only radical religious masculists who don't get bothered over watching a movie with only men. And maybe playboy types who are gay. I had a friend like that once, there was no end to his sexual obsession and he probably would have enjoyed any movie with an all male cast. Sort of like a lot of straight men I know who would enjoy movies with an all female cast...

Anyway, I think probably 85% of people would be bothered by a cast being almost entirely male.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#50 - 2014-05-01 15:23:54 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


Anyway, I think probably 85% of people would be bothered by a cast being almost entirely male.


Welp, there is the entire "Expendables" series.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#51 - 2014-05-01 15:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


In the second movie? Sure, but the whole "seriously mentally ill" thing was a wrench.

In the first movie she spends the entire time running until the last 10 minutes when she finds her spine.



She never had a reason to need one.


ed: And Sigourney Weaver only "takes over" Alien in the last 16 minutes.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-05-01 16:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
The first Terminator movie was pretty trashy and chauvanistic. Sarah spends all her time running around scared and being protected by a big strong man. It makes sense from a story perspective, sure, but that sort of plot writing was beyond typical those days, nay it was the bread and butter of the movie industry--even science fiction which is usually known for being more culturally mature than that.

The second Terminator movie really made a great turnaround as they showed how Sarah turned around and stopped running scared, and started actually taking a stand to defend herself. Not only did they make her strong, they revealed her to be a very caring and selfless person. Not many people in her position would have fought to save the world like she did, especially when she already knew she wasn't going to live to see the fall of society.

Alien was an obvious attempt at showing people that women could play major roles in movies. They didn't make Ripley into a female action star, they made her into a male action star played by a woman. Sigourney Weaver's character in the first movie was rather reminiscent of Ed Harris' character in The Abyss, except Ripley was more masculine than Bud. In later releases they made Ripley more feminine without taking away her badassness or destroying any previously existing elements of her character. I think that's pretty amazing and overlooked.

There are a lot of movies with powerful women stars, but there is still a majority in which women are at least slightly marginalized. Of course, most of that is simply because movie characters tend to be similar to real people. Women in '60s film are a pretty uncanny representation of real women in the '60s.

I think the Mortal Kombat movie actually has one of the best representations of a realistic female action hero. Ignoring the fantasy elements and superhuman fighting prowess that humans possess, you have a female action hero, Sonya Blade, who is well aware that the men around her expect her to be weaker than they are and to need help. She hates this because she's had to fight it all her life. As one of the most powerful women in the world, she has lived a life of showing men that she's not to be trifled with. But just the same, there are several or even many men that are stronger and more powerful than she is. When it comes to elite world-class fighting against superhumans and immortals, she needs more help than Johnny Cage does. But that's not to say she is weak. On the contrary, she showed us what she is made of multiple times throughout the movie. She is feminine, human, strong, powerful, skilled, intelligent, brave, independent, feminist, challenging, and outgoing. These are the traits you can expect to see in a top-class warrior woman who isn't exceptionally manly hormonally.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-05-01 16:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
I'm not a huge fan of the Ripley or Aeryn Sun type tough chick characters.. not because they're tough as nails, but because they seem to become one dimensional over time.

I thought the female characters in Firefly were interesting.

Zoe was tough but her relationship with Mal and Wash was fascinating and very a-typical. Kaylee somehow combined compassionate, smart, useful, and fragile all into one character. River was self-absorbed, irritating, but 100% essential and dangerous.

The only problem was that the show was too short lived to develop them any further..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-05-01 16:42:53 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
The only problem was that the show was too short lived to develop them any further..
So true. It was sad watching the movie and seeing years of content and character development condensed into a couple hours. It was not unlike when a woman gets tired of sex and the man tries to finish up really fast.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Marsha Mallow
#55 - 2014-05-01 18:01:13 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Ripley or Aeryn Sun type tough chick characters.. not because they're tough as nails, but because they seem to become one dimensional over time.

That's what I was getting at earlier when I mentioned too many female characters can become one-dimentional - and tbh I think female audiences prefer to focus on female characters they identify/sympathise with which requires a fair bit of development. There's also the fact that women can't be seen in mainstream films as sexually unavailable a lot of the time (how many are married etc?) so to add too many brings in the need to craft extra romantic arcs. Because they can't escape single either, it's unacceptable :P

Really, Hollywood reflects a mainstream industry dedicated to putting up female aspirational stereotypes/viable romantic leads/**** material. They have to be typically: young, sexy, willing to strip a bit, funny, tough, vulnerable, fiesty, single, kind to children, optional superpowers yadayadayada. Basically role models and someone you can understand the main male lead fancying for more than ten seconds. I'd rather see a realistic female persona - maybe a 'slapper' with nonconformist hair/clothes/tattoos/piercings, foul mouthed chain smoking **** artist who just randomly whips out a gun and blows people away when the mood arises. Blokes who do this become iconic, women who do are 'monstrous'. Ho hum. But consider Lisbeth Salander does tick a hell of a lot of those boxes - and the character was created by a guy, is really popular and mainstream film makers have tried to bandwagon onto it. Then think about non-mainstream films and how much influence they have on wider culture. Who cares what LA thinks about women anyway? They can churn it out, and we can watch, but we don't have to buy into it.

Action films are seen as male dominated, because violence and aggression are their province and anything too excessive makes people uncomfortable. Having said that male characters are reduced to one-dimentional cutouts as well. In group action films you get archetypes of male personas, i.e. the fit one, the funny one, the fat one, the clumsy one etc (guess which one gets the romantic arc). As mentioned earlier the trend has been challenged by certain films, but rarely in mainstream cinema. The scene in Thelma and Louise with the tanker driver caused really loud cheering when I saw it at the pics. By contrast, GWDT recived a storm of criticism over sexualising fairly brutal **** scenes (in both versions) which was hardly helpful given that they were a) pretty revolting and scary and b) explained the later violence.

It's alright holding up SW as some sort of universal SF action movie for all ages and generations, but don't overlook the fact Leia spent a good portion of the final movie semi nude and Amidala was nothing but a womb in waiting (with nice outfits).

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#56 - 2014-05-02 14:36:09 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:


It's alright holding up SW as some sort of universal SF action movie for all ages and generations, but don't overlook the fact Leia spent a good portion of the final movie semi nude and Amidala was nothing but a womb in waiting (with nice outfits).



That's also the film that sent out harbingers of the badness to come. Mainly Ewoks. So, what's a person to do ? Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#57 - 2014-05-02 14:45:19 UTC
Here is the most observant piece I can find:

This Isn’t Just About Star Wars: The 5 Dumbest Arguments Against Gender Diversity

"Just because you can spout the names of a few great movies that have great female characters and/or work in spite of a gender imbalance, that doesn’t mean a thing when looking at the big picture. Maybe your entire top 100 favorite films of all time were all chosen for the great roles for women in each of them. Fantastic, but the numbers don’t lie. According to a 2013 study by the Women’s Media Center, only 16 percent of film protagonists in the 100 top-grossing films of the year were women, and women made up only 33 percent of all characters in those films."

___________

BTW, the yammering about this particular point has overshadowed everything else about the announcements earlier in the week. Everyone was just really surprised about the paltry female casting.

One thing you younger folks might not be percieving is the fact that in 1977 when Star Wars came out, it was rare....super rare, for a girl to be a Geek, and like things like Star Wars. It just wasn't done. I would say female attendance at SF conventions was maybe 10% of the audience. And authors.........my God, the women back then had to even publish under masculine names or abbreviated names as publishers just "knew"boys would not read SF written by women. C.L. Moore (Catherine). James Tiptree Jr. (Alice Sheldon).

It's a vastly different world now. Utterly. Girls are even a higher percentage of game players than men, for God's sake.

And this year of the 8 Nebula Award Nominees for best Novel, 6 are authored by women! Astounding.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-05-02 19:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
So JJ Abrams believes it is his duty to uphold the male-centric-ness of the Star Wars franchise? Where was his sense of duty when he decided not to uphold the gender diversity of the Star Trek franchise?

After reading that article you just linked, Krixtal, I found myself visiting the Bechdel test site. After a journey of discovery, I came to the conclusion that I've hated male-centric movies all my life and never realized it. I had always had a certain distaste for a wide variety of movies that I couldn't explain. I examined their traits thoroughly and found nothing "wrong" with them that I could see. So why didn't I like them? Well apparently what they all have in common is that they fail the Bechdel test.

JJ Abrams' take on Star Trek was a huge díck-slap to Star Trek fans everywhere as it subverted nearly everything that made the series great. I have often agreed, however, that if the movies were exactly the same except for the movie name not being "Star Trek" and character names not including Star Trek characters, that it would have been a pretty good movie. But there was always something more that I disliked about it. Now I know what it is. There's hardly any women, and the few there are are flat and featureless characters.



On another note, I found a link to a flowchart for female characters, to see what type they are. I decided to use the chart to label one of my favorite characters, Amy Wong from Futurama, who most people have told me they find very annoying and generally just a lousy character. Well I'm not sure if she passes the first item, I am half and half on whether or not she could carry her own story. If she can, she passes the rest and is a strong female character (according to the chart). If she can't, she goes down and winds up at wild card. I think the two together are actually a pretty good descriptor of her character. She's individual and self-centered (but not mean about it), and is also very much one of the wild card characters that the writers use to build random stories for episodes. She has some backstory, but it's mostly still unwritten and the writers seem to prefer that.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#59 - 2014-05-02 21:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelique Duchemin
J.J. Abrams is hailed as the next Steven Spielberg but Spielberg is a man who took chances.


J.J. Abrams is probably the safest director the movie industry has ever had.

He's the guy you hire if you want a safe and comfortable return on your investment without any risks.

When you don't intend to make any masterpieces or push any envelopes. He's a banker who happened to do his profession in the movie industry.



As for credible female protagonists. Has there been one since Fargo?


The Bechdel test is overrated. At best a curiosity.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#60 - 2014-05-02 22:18:07 UTC
You want strong female lead you say. I present to you one of the strongest female leads in my mind Big smile

I spit on your grave.