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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1801 - 2014-05-02 15:52:21 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
you obviously don't know very much about how a rattlesnake is played. If you are using cruise missiles on frigates, you are doing it wrong.

learn to play before you come here spouting ignorance.



They're called precisions and they two shot elites.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#1802 - 2014-05-02 15:53:02 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:

The thread is polarised into "please restore the capability to engage rats of all rat classes by whatever means."
And.
" you don't need drones anyway, accept the Loss of capability, missile users are much better off so you should be grateful!"

Is that a fair summation?


Now who's baiting?

No, in all seriousness, I don't really think that's a fair summation. I have noticed at least three separate camps, and you're thoroughly disparaging the second camp you are lining out.


no, you guys really do sound that silly and that is exactly what you are saying.

The Rattlesnakes role was versatility and resistance to e-war, now being destroyed with these changes.


The Snake's role was supertanky shield Domi with inferior drone tracking. There is a reason that the old Snake was going for 400 million, besides their supply being so large.

I trust the market's opinion on this... When these changes were announced, the price went up 200 million, at which point the CFC sold a lot of their stock of snakes. Even after that flood, prices are still up 100 million. It would seem to me that indicates that people believe the new Rattler will be more useful than the old.


I am, personally, very excited for the changes. I already use rapid heavies, so this is just a buff for me. But...

This argument is not valid. It drives me crazy when people mix up demand for a ship with market speculation. When the changes were announced everyone and their brother started speculating in the market. That is what caused the price to go up. The market traders were feeding off of each other, but players who where rushing in to preemptively buy the new Rattlesnake that is not out yet. When the new Rattlesnake is on the market and the speculation has ended, then you can compare the supply to the supply of other pirate BS. At that point you can use the market information. Doing so beforehand would be irresponsible and cannot possibly give accurate information on which to base an informed opinion.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1803 - 2014-05-02 16:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Aurilien
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur wrote:


I am, personally, very excited for the changes. I already use rapid heavies, so this is just a buff for me. But...

This argument is not valid. It drives me crazy when people mix up demand for a ship with market speculation. When the changes were announced everyone and their brother started speculating in the market. That is what caused the price to go up. The market traders were feeding off of each other, but players who where rushing in to preemptively buy the new Rattlesnake that is not out yet. When the new Rattlesnake is on the market and the speculation has ended, then you can compare the supply to the supply of other pirate BS. At that point you can use the market information. Doing so beforehand would be irresponsible and cannot possibly give accurate information on which to base an informed opinion.


I somewhat disagree. You can normally read the reception of a change in the market. It's not absolute, but you can get an idea of people's opinions about it.

The Nightmare, for instance surged 200 million, and then steadied. (Previous to this rebalance, there was really very little reason to use a Nightmare over a Pali.) The Mach is an even better example, the price had been slightly depressed, as everyone was expecting a nerf. After this rebalance was announced, prices rebounded.

I agree that it's far from perfect, but it does give an indication of opinion.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1804 - 2014-05-02 16:11:34 UTC
motie one wrote:

The thread is polarised into "please restore the capability to engage rats of all rat classes by whatever means."
And.
" you don't need drones anyway, accept the Loss of capability, missile users are much better off so you should be grateful!"

Is that a fair summation?


Well, there is me, who says that if they are going to apply the drawbacks of of the superdrone concept, they should give us the full value of the bonus as well: 12 effective large drones. As it applies to two kinds of drone, maybe split the difference at a 30% bonus, which would be 9.75 effective drones.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1805 - 2014-05-02 16:27:14 UTC
I know it's FanFest, but I'm still disappointed by the lack of dev involvement in this thread - especially considering how important these ships are. The Nestor and Rattlesnake are now the most contentious redesigns...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1806 - 2014-05-02 16:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Sgt Ocker wrote:
You might want to do your Dps comparison again, this time include reload.

EFT (paper) Dps is just that, I thought anyone with a weeks Eve Xp had that down. Paper Dps is not applied Dps (especially if you include reload time for anything likely to take more than 1 clip). Rapid launchers, are more affected by this than any other weapon system.




I assure you, RLMLs apply damage way better to PC frigates than bonused light drones. Against unwebbed frigs, it's probably several times better due to the drones shutting their MWDs off when they reach activation range and then having a 10 sec delay to reactivate them.

Also, 3 unbonused Cruise do 151.2 DPS with reloads. 4 50% bonused RLMLs do 158.25 DPS with reloads. That's raw DPS by the way, would you care to speculate on which of these applies damage better?

Finally, heavy drones hit NPC frigates just fine, even elite frigates. An Ogre II has 2.5 times the tracking of medium ACs, you think a Vagabond can't hit NPC elite frigs? The NPC frigs orbit so close the heavy drones will never get out of activation range of their targets, which means no chasing around and not shooting.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1807 - 2014-05-02 16:32:08 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
motie one wrote:

The thread is polarised into "please restore the capability to engage rats of all rat classes by whatever means."
And.
" you don't need drones anyway, accept the Loss of capability, missile users are much better off so you should be grateful!"

Is that a fair summation?


Well, there is me, who says that if they are going to apply the drawbacks of of the superdrone concept, they should give us the full value of the bonus as well: 12 effective large drones. As it applies to two kinds of drone, maybe split the difference at a 30% bonus, which would be 9.75 effective drones.


I have a different way of looking at this. I don't see it as a trade in which I am giving up a bonus in return for another.

Quite simply, if the rattlesnake does not compare favourably with other options, I'll use the other options.

In its current presentation I can't see a reason to field a rattlesnake over a navy battleship, other than as bait (which it was already good at).

The argument of, "well it can fit medium or small missiles to deal with frigates" does not hold water for me. In a fleet it does not matter since there will be rapiers. As a solo frigate killer well, let's just say there are better and cheaper options...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#1808 - 2014-05-02 16:33:06 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I know it's FanFest, but I'm still disappointed by the lack of dev involvement in this thread - especially considering how important these ships are. The Nestor and Rattlesnake are now the most contentious redesigns...

more important is that new black raven from the 3 teaser screens posted yesterday on fanfest Twisted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1809 - 2014-05-02 16:40:11 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:


you obviously don't know very much about how a rattlesnake is played. If you are using cruise missiles on frigates, you are doing it wrong.

learn to play before you come here spouting ignorance.


Yea that line wont wash with me.

The new rattle will cause more damage to frigs when fitted with cruise than the old one.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1810 - 2014-05-02 16:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Vinyl 41 wrote:
more important is that new black raven from the 3 teaser screens posted yesterday on fanfest Twisted

Was that what it was? I couldn't tell… Waiting for the Valkyrie presentation to end… EVE keynote starts now! We should have details on the new ships within the next 2 hours…
http://fanfest.eveonline.com/en/stream/free

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1811 - 2014-05-02 17:02:33 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
more important is that new black raven from the 3 teaser screens posted yesterday on fanfest Twisted

Was that what it was? I couldn't tell… Waiting for the Valkyrie presentation to end… EVE keynote starts now! We should have details on the new ships within the next 2 hours…
http://fanfest.eveonline.com/en/stream/free


i dnt think it was a black raven...there was a black venture (the prospect) and some blue-ish plating....

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1812 - 2014-05-02 17:23:01 UTC
Finally, keynote… here goes 2 hours of my life. Hope it's worth it...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1813 - 2014-05-02 17:37:10 UTC
Geckos were just announced… Every EVE subscriber gets 3 free next Tuesday for EVE's birthday. And apparently there are some community goals to unlock more...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1814 - 2014-05-02 17:38:55 UTC
Whelp, since the gecko is limited, there goes that solution to the RS's issues likely.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1815 - 2014-05-02 17:52:14 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whelp, since the gecko is limited, there goes that solution to the RS's issues likely.

CCP Segull indicated there would be community events to unlock more, but there weren't any further details.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1816 - 2014-05-02 17:55:35 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whelp, since the gecko is limited, there goes that solution to the RS's issues likely.

CCP Segull indicated there would be community events to unlock more, but there weren't any further details.


Yeah, not even going to lie, I am looking forward to suicide ganking those things if I see someone using them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1817 - 2014-05-02 18:00:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Yeah, not even going to lie, I am looking forward to suicide ganking those things if I see someone using them.

Now now, be nice...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#1818 - 2014-05-02 18:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
not sold on mordusEvil why another cal gal hybrid Ugh
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1819 - 2014-05-02 18:21:38 UTC
Mordu's Legion official! Caldari-Gallente missile-based ships with extended scram range, woot! And they're black!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1820 - 2014-05-02 18:31:07 UTC