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Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams

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El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#621 - 2014-05-02 10:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
CCP SoniClover wrote:


.......we are wary of encouraging nomadic behavior too much.


Ah so CCP don't like nomadic behaviour? I think I'm starting to understand, unfortunately for me I rather like a nomadic gamestyle.

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Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#622 - 2014-05-02 13:53:51 UTC
El Geo wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:


.......we are wary of encouraging nomadic behavior too much.


Ah so CCP don't like nomadic behaviour? I think I'm starting to understand, unfortunately for me I rather like a nomadic gamestyle.


Then luckily you won't require their encouragement to be a nomad. As long as they aren't discouraging it, your sandbox remains relatively clear of cat shite.
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#623 - 2014-05-02 14:59:42 UTC
Marsan wrote:
I'd like to be happy for this feature but when this feature was 1st mentioned I thought. Wow CCP is finally going to put some work into Corp/Alliance roles/perms letting indy corps cooperate safely without risk everyone losing their blue prints, material and the like. Even as it became clear it was not that I held out hope. Instead is this release we see CCP pushing us into using POSes which are as former WH dweller the most insecure way to do anything.

Seriously just let us launch POSes for self in addition to corp, because no one in their right mind shares a mfg or research POS with anyone other than their alts. What EVE Industry needs is a robust security framework for an Industrial player to want to be in a corp.

Sure Teams are interesting but these are not the teams Eve needs.


QFT. I've got my own alt corps, specifically because of the reasons you stated. It's ridiculous that we should HAVE to have our own alt corps to do any research/manufacturing at a POS, or to be able to securely share blueprints in a station between our alts.

These are not the Teams we are looking for.
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#624 - 2014-05-02 15:00:29 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Marsan wrote:
I'd like to be happy for this feature but when this feature was 1st mentioned I thought. Wow CCP is finally going to put some work into Corp/Alliance roles/perms letting indy corps cooperate safely without risk everyone losing their blue prints, material and the like. Instead we see CCP pushing us into using POSes which are as former WH dweller the most insecure way to do anything.

Seriously just let us launch POSes for self in addition to corp, because no one in their right mind shares a mfg or research POS with anyone other than their alts. What EVE Industry needs is a robust security framework for an Industrial player to want to be in a corp.



>Launch for self >Invulnverable 50m EHP highsec POS


No


Yes, if you limit it to members of Player run corps.
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#625 - 2014-05-02 15:02:08 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Marsan wrote:


Seriously just let us launch POSes for self in addition to corp, because no one in their right mind shares a mfg or research POS with anyone other than their alts. What EVE Industry needs is a robust security framework for an Industrial player to want to be in a corp.



>Launch for self >Invulnverable 50m EHP highsec POS


No


Why would that have to be true. Just don't let people in NPC corps anchor POSes. Nothing else I own is protected from a war. A POS launched for a corp is still subject to an alliance war.




Then it sounds like you should talk to your corp about roles, not bugging CCP for meaningless and time consuming features that add nothing.


Use your brain. Only an idiot that wants to be separated from their hard-earned resources SHARES their research/production POS with an entire corporation. Are you such an idiot?
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#626 - 2014-05-02 15:03:40 UTC
Hawkwar wrote:
Teams... an interesting idea but you not only missed the target with this one but the entire battlefield. I dont want a "team" of NPCs to build my stuff, I want to use a team of players to build my stuff. The teams tab in the first devblog caused a stir because we believed that we would finally be able to work cooperatively in industry but you still dont want players having an easy way to work together. Deespite this being an MMO and wanting people to work together.

The teams you are introducing will be a dismal failure as who wants to wait for a week spending isk to try and attract a team when you could just spend that isk and manufacture your product and have it a week earlier.

As far as I am concerned this is a pointless waste of time that doesnt help players/corps in any meaningful way.


Amen. Definitely not the Teams we were looking for.
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#627 - 2014-05-02 15:06:42 UTC
This is so, so much better than what I was looking for...

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#628 - 2014-05-02 15:10:27 UTC
Seith Kali wrote:
This is so, so much better than what I was looking for...


To each their own.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#629 - 2014-05-02 15:14:32 UTC
Seith Kali wrote:
This is so, so much better than what I was looking for...


I presume you were looking for nothing? Thus something was better? lol
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#630 - 2014-05-02 15:20:45 UTC
I had been racking my brains for how industry could become collaborative in some form or other. Couldn't come up with anything non-superficial that couldn't be just 'me an ma alts'.

This is it, bravo CCP.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
#631 - 2014-05-02 15:48:07 UTC
I still dont get why so many people dont understand how heavily this change will skew the things for a group of coordinated players (or, as I like to call them, t e a m s ) against the autistic solo players.

If that's not what you were looking for, what is?
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#632 - 2014-05-02 16:05:43 UTC
Cultural Enrichment wrote:
I still dont get why so many people dont understand how heavily this change will skew the things for a group of coordinated players (or, as I like to call them, t e a m s ) against the autistic solo players.

If that's not what you were looking for, what is?


Once again we are dependent upon NPCs to play a significant role in what we do, instead of being the agents of change ourselves.

Can you imagine Burn Jita run by NPCs?
Can you imagine miniluv run by NPCs?
Can you imagine Ice Interdiction run by NPCs?

Yes, a group of coordinated players can be more ISK effective now....some (including me and my army of alts) are going to get extremely rich off of this, but that's not really the Players being the star...the NPCs are.

Yes, we will get to make more strategic decisions than we did before...that's great if that is what you enjoy (and a lot of people do enjoy that, as some of my more well known colleagues allude to).

But it is still, in its basic form, just another solo activity...no other player involvement is required to be a good industrialist. I can take a single alt, and produce a ton of product and make a lot of ISK from it, competitively. I get no added benefit (that I can't get from just playing the market, or striking deals for materials suppliers) from coordinating multiple players in the production of a single item....except through the use of NPCs, which I truly despise the thought of.
Nyjil Lizaru
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#633 - 2014-05-02 16:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyjil Lizaru
Cultural Enrichment wrote:
I still dont get why so many people dont understand how heavily this change will skew the things for a group of coordinated players (or, as I like to call them, t e a m s ) against the autistic solo players.

If that's not what you were looking for, what is?



I am one of those solo players (solo as far as my industrial work, and of course I will argue the autistic partBlink) and I do see that coordinated groups will make much more isk than I - but they will have to actually 'coordinate'. So I'm starting to think that this is actually a pretty good way to encourage group play. People who do 'a bit' of industry to fund the other stuff that they prefer doing (such as myself) will not reap the highest rewards, and I think that's actually good - let those who focus on industry as their main playstyle get more out of it.

I still think that the whole thing is a big step backwards in terms of accessibility to new players, but we'll see how cumbersome the system is when it's rolled out - I might retract my sig.

Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law:   "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#634 - 2014-05-02 16:57:52 UTC
Laendra wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Marsan wrote:


Seriously just let us launch POSes for self in addition to corp, because no one in their right mind shares a mfg or research POS with anyone other than their alts. What EVE Industry needs is a robust security framework for an Industrial player to want to be in a corp.



>Launch for self >Invulnverable 50m EHP highsec POS


No


Why would that have to be true. Just don't let people in NPC corps anchor POSes. Nothing else I own is protected from a war. A POS launched for a corp is still subject to an alliance war.




Then it sounds like you should talk to your corp about roles, not bugging CCP for meaningless and time consuming features that add nothing.


Use your brain. Only an idiot that wants to be separated from their hard-earned resources SHARES their research/production POS with an entire corporation. Are you such an idiot?




The system proposed is functionally no different than the existing one, except the "player" owns the structures


Which either 1) Follow him when he leaves corp, leading to invulnerable POS

or 2) Stay with the corp, making with the entire thing an exercise in madness - you can just use the existing corporation structures to "own" a POS.
MyHaula
Wages Of Sin
#635 - 2014-05-02 17:05:03 UTC
Cultural Enrichment wrote:
I still dont get why so many people dont understand how heavily this change will skew the things for a group of coordinated players (or, as I like to call them, t e a m s ) against the autistic solo players.

If that's not what you were looking for, what is?


I'm one of the stupid ones. I don't get how this will skew so much to a group of coordinated players.
Nyjil Lizaru
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#636 - 2014-05-02 17:44:15 UTC
I expect that groups of players (either formal alliances or less formal 'arrangements') will cooperate on auctions to bring high-bonus (and probably highly focused) teams to one system where they will build the crap out of whatever specialty they picked.

Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law:   "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#637 - 2014-05-02 19:42:39 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
No word on whether titan/cap specialties will exist (haven't seen a question on it either). Even then that would mean grouping all titan builds into the same system, and broadcasting that system, and then defending the POS until they all come out.

Actually, given that titan BPOs have relatively low numbers of parts (500 or so), and that the BPO itself is probably already ME2+ (old style), I don't know that the relatively modest ME improvements from teams would be effective at improving the actual titan build. Where the team bonus is more likely to be useful is in the builds of the titan components. So, theoretically, you could have a team in a central build system for building the components, with the titan builds themselves in several nearby systems. But, having never attempted a titan build myself, I'm intentionally overlooking the logistics of that, which might make the whole thing a maddening mess.

MDD
Furoth
Black Avarice
Skeletons in the Closet
#638 - 2014-05-02 21:06:17 UTC
Those with the highest profit margins and production costs will find the teams easy to monopolize. The small industrialist who is just starting out gains nothing from the system. Actually they pay a new cost for the default teams so really its harder for them to turn a profit. They now have an additional cost with no chance of gaining the benefits. It only serves to push small industrial operations out of the market. And that's a lousy idea.

Give us our own teams to train over time and jobs run and it's a level playing field but to force the small operations to bid at the same level of those who turn over trillions in materials and products and you have a slanted system that punishes the little guys.

I hate the whole idea of it.
Flay Nardieu
#639 - 2014-05-03 01:31:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Flay Nardieu

"I'm not taking pie from you, I'm giving pie to me" Penn from Penn & Tell in episode of Bullshit

Paraphrase in context:

"We aren't taking options from players, we are enabling NPCs"

Some plans for the expansion are so obviously contrary to what has been stated in recent announcements and posts and a couple are complete contradictions to the 3 principles the whole expansion was supposedly based on...
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#640 - 2014-05-03 08:47:09 UTC
Furoth wrote:
Those with the highest profit margins and production costs will find the teams easy to monopolize. The small industrialist who is just starting out gains nothing from the system. Actually they pay a new cost for the default teams so really its harder for them to turn a profit. They now have an additional cost with no chance of gaining the benefits. It only serves to push small industrial operations out of the market. And that's a lousy idea.

Give us our own teams to train over time and jobs run and it's a level playing field but to force the small operations to bid at the same level of those who turn over trillions in materials and products and you have a slanted system that punishes the little guys.

I hate the whole idea of it.


Or the small guys move to where the big guys are producing and reaping the same benefit for none of the cost. Looks pretty valid to me