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CSM Panel - Fanfest 2014 Stream ... Waste of an Hour

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Darren Fox
Overload This
#41 - 2014-05-02 07:11:31 UTC
It would have been a lot better if it had been better prepared. What they could have done:
-Gone through through the summits and shared some video footage from that, showing the CSM "in action"
-Presented an updated "minutes tldr;" since we now have some devblogs we didn't have
-Brought up some points where there was discussion and disagreement, supported by some slides outlining the iterations and the end results

With the exception of Ali, who was eager and still seemed to be in campaign mode, it felt like we saw a group of people that were really tired after a year of hard work, and had forgotten their notes and slides.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#42 - 2014-05-02 07:17:53 UTC
Mike looks like Sam Elliot and Malcanis looks different than I imagined.

Also, did CCP Leeloo say anything substantial or she was just an eye candy? I don't know because I blitzed whole thing and getting to it again is :effort:

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Yim Sei
Ontogenic Achronycal PLC
#43 - 2014-05-02 07:23:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Yim Sei
Got to agree with the OP here.

There is never much substance and most (not all) seem to have policies which lavish their personal playstyle with more isk at the expense of other playstyles.

The fact that most conversation seems to be behind closed doors makes me believe that benefit of the whole playerbase comes second after their own and CCPs profit.

I wonder how many personalised hoodies they must buy CCP to get their own way? seems to work.

Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-05-02 07:29:37 UTC
I think someone like Dinsdale should be CSM, we need more union leader attitude (or more diverse one for those of you) and less unpayed pr person one, telling us how important they are and how very very very very hard they fought for issues (...but alas, my dear ladies, your request is under consideration...) .
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#45 - 2014-05-02 07:33:10 UTC
Darren Fox wrote:
It would have been a lot better if it had been better prepared. What they could have done:
-Gone through through the summits and shared some video footage from that, showing the CSM "in action"
-Presented an updated "minutes tldr;" since we now have some devblogs we didn't have
-Brought up some points where there was discussion and disagreement, supported by some slides outlining the iterations and the end results

With the exception of Ali, who was eager and still seemed to be in campaign mode, it felt like we saw a group of people that were really tired after a year of hard work, and had forgotten their notes and slides.


This! Definitely this! This presentation would have been so much more interesting presented in this way.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-05-02 07:37:13 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Null-sec may get the headlines but high-sec is the engine that drives EVE. Yet there is little if any high-sec representation on the CSM, and this is why the majority of players don't vote and perceive the CSM as nothing more than a token alliance syndicate.

Drone 16 wrote:
I was particularly impressed with Ali Aras.

Actually Ali was the only one I was impressed with. If you followed the Q&A session she was the only one that seemed to be genuinely interested in discussing some of the questions raised. The white papers were a great example when it was suggested to offer a "dumbed down" version. The response? Well, Jester did a blog writeup and many players actually prefer sifting through dozens of pages of materials. Even CCP Dolan can't seem to get behind the white papers so who are we kidding?!

The vast majority seemed more interested in stroking their egos about their tireless efforts and what a thankless job it is. Yes, I'm sure this is exactly what most players who PAID for their trip to Iceland were hoping to discuss or hear with this session. Most of us do get that it's volunteer - and that with the timezone and coordination it probably entails a lot of effort. On the other hand, the CSM members weren't f**king drafted, either.

It's too bad (or at least I didn't see) the real response as to why many players didn't vote: the CSM simply doesn't represent them.


The only direction highsec drives EVE is head on into a concrete barricade. Highsec is one of the huge problem areas of EVE so much so one of the CSM members decided it was worth the effort to suggest major changes. Nerfing highsec would be a great benefit to EVE and probably the CSM process as it would be an incentive for more highsec players to voice their opinion by voting.

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#47 - 2014-05-02 07:39:09 UTC
E Thatcher wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
It's weird till you remember that if you follow the CSM and understand what it does you are a vast minority of the EVE Community.

Funny how the CSM is supposed to represent all the players and not just a "vast minority". I'd call that a failure.

But who's to blame for that? The vast majority of players who either does not know or care? CCP that does not give the CSM enough exposure? The CSM that doesn't communicate what they're doing to the players they're supposed to represent?

Can we fix it?

i call that "an elegant solution to the uninformed idiot problem"


And therin lies part of the problem, the idiot minion attitude. Do you really think our iqs are under 25?



For a vast majority of people on this planet; yes, very much so. People are just hiding it through sheer repetition but the majority of people are dumb and ignorant as fck.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#48 - 2014-05-02 08:21:38 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
So, anyone else feeling like that CSM panel has just said

1. CSM thinks they are important
2. CSM has been told by CCP they are important
3. CSM is important
4. CSM does things that are important.

Seriously, I listened to the stream expecting some sort of intelligent conversation about in-depth details.. Why none of this cee cee pee?

-Buhhd


No you pretty much summed it up

Luckily, even if the whole thing is a huge practical joke that ccp pull for the sheer pleasure of spending money, all you're out is 5 minutes a year to click a few names on a webpage.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#49 - 2014-05-02 08:40:54 UTC
Already sober enough to post? :)

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#50 - 2014-05-02 08:46:13 UTC
Don't want to miss the hotel breakfast...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#51 - 2014-05-02 08:48:59 UTC
And I guess liver doesn't allow as much of nocturnal life style as it used to either :)

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Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#52 - 2014-05-02 09:53:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
So, anyone else feeling like that CSM panel has just said

1. CSM thinks they are important
2. CSM has been told by CCP they are important
3. CSM is important
4. CSM does things that are important.

Seriously, I listened to the stream expecting some sort of intelligent conversation about in-depth details.. Why none of this cee cee pee?

-Buhhd


No you pretty much summed it up

Luckily, even if the whole thing is a huge practical joke that ccp pull for the sheer pleasure of spending money, all you're out is 5 minutes a year to click a few names on a webpage.


to you this may just be "clicking a few names on a webpage", but for those of us who have to sit through it and listen to you lot jabber on about some random rubbish (I'll admit, it didn't help that dolan was there chatting **** too), it gets really, really boring very quickly. Where was the content in this CSM panel Malcanis? Did you feel like anything was actually achieved by being there? To me it just looked like a holiday to iceland.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#53 - 2014-05-02 10:12:50 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
To me it just looked like a holiday to iceland.


It's a gathering of computer game fans, why do you try to make it into slave labor camp?

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#54 - 2014-05-02 10:19:54 UTC
Fanfest is a holiday. You've had about a thousand hours of otherwise unpaid work from me; what more do you think I owe you?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#55 - 2014-05-02 10:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Buhhdust Princess
Malcanis wrote:
Fanfest is a holiday. You've had about a thousand hours of otherwise unpaid work from me; what more do you think I owe you?


you don't owe us anything, but you go on about CSM not being a popular thing among the EVE community, and you sit there and grumble about it, and say things like "It only takes 5 mins to vote" sure it does, I like the CSM, i appreciate what you guys do as a team with CCP, but you need to make the fanfest stream panels more interesting if you want more people to get involved!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#56 - 2014-05-02 10:23:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Fanfest is a holiday. You've had about a thousand hours of otherwise unpaid work from me; what more do you think I owe you?


*raises hand*

Well, I wouldn't mind details about that motel breakfast...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-05-02 10:26:36 UTC
While I have to admit that I have never been actively engaged in watching the CSM, I would agree on the fact that they come across as a group of people that is put in place by CCP to have players believe they actually listen and that they are well represented

The presentation was absolutely horrible, this is the first time I have had to look away at a fanfest stream because of the all important CSM embarrasing themselves on livestream
Like the OP, all I heard was a statement on how important they are, and how much effort they put into improving the game.
Meanwhile they have nothing to show for it, and have achieved exactly the opposite of what they are aiming for

I feel somewhat ashamed that you are supposedly representing my opinion, please please stop attempting to explain us how important you are supposed to be
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-05-02 11:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Fanfest is a holiday. You've had about a thousand hours of otherwise unpaid work from me; what more do you think I owe you?


you don't owe us anything, but you go on about CSM not being a popular thing among the EVE community, and you sit there and grumble about it, and say things like "It only takes 5 mins to vote" sure it does, I like the CSM, i appreciate what you guys do as a team with CCP, but you need to make the fanfest stream panels more interesting if you want more people to get involved!

CSM panel was exactly as I expected it to be. The main thing is the CSM are doing good work behind the scenes.

Although Malcanis, you state you did 1000 hours of unpaid work, would be nice to know exactly what that work was. I can see some of your handy work in the Industry changes. Are you not allowed to mention that stuff or something?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#59 - 2014-05-02 12:13:25 UTC
I have a feeling that responding to devs questions and requests cannot be shrugged off with jolly trolling like it happens here and writing useful responses even for simple questions takes time. And that time adds up pretty quickly especially when subject is not exactly straightforward.

Invalid signature format
Ix Method
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-05-02 12:16:36 UTC
This CSM does seem to have a ridiculous sense of self-importance, some of the Cap Stable podcasts with incumbents were just hideous. If I hear anything along the lines of 'We're told we're not Junior Game Designers but then sometimes, really, we are' again I'll scream.

You hate to **** on them cause its clear they've made some useful contributions but there seems to have been a shift in the rhetoric away from them being a useful tool for developers to bounce ideas off to them being so so so so so so so so so so so so so so (...) crucial to the future of the game, the wellbeing of the company and humanity in general.

Travelling at the speed of love.