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CSM Panel - Fanfest 2014 Stream ... Waste of an Hour

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#21 - 2014-05-01 21:48:36 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
It's weird till you remember that if you follow the CSM and understand what it does you are a vast minority of the EVE Community.

Funny how the CSM is supposed to represent all the players and not just a "vast minority". I'd call that a failure.

But who's to blame for that? The vast majority of players who either does not know or care? CCP that does not give the CSM enough exposure? The CSM that doesn't communicate what they're doing to the players they're supposed to represent?

Can we fix it?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Louise Beethoven
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-05-01 22:00:23 UTC
I used to be skeptical of the CSM too like some here. Then I watched another MMO dev (Turbine) try to do the same thing... their version of the CSM consists of a collection of dev-selected Yes men who hide behind a wall of impenetrable secrecy. I kind of found a new respect for CCP's attempt after watching that shitshow.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#23 - 2014-05-01 22:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Buhhdust Princess
I follow the CSM closely, all the candidates and what they want and what they're improving. However, I recognised Rip as a CSM, the rest I have no clue, nor do I care really who they are, they haven't made much of an "Impact" on the community, I have been around for years and still don't know these people!

However, there are people that are constantly active, wanting to help people and doing their best, and yet these scrublord retards get the CSM panel instead, its a ******* pathetic.

tl;dr, give the CSM to people who actually care, not people who pretend, or are your friends.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-05-01 22:18:52 UTC
I like the CSM. Also especially nice to see Malcanis in person, as much an ******* in real life and on the forums. ;) (in a good endearing way)

What made me chuckle, was the complete ass hat who asked the first question trying to say that eve is dying because CCP are not introducing lots of nice shiny new AUR store items for him to dress his avatar. I could see Malcanis was struggling to hold back his rage!
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#25 - 2014-05-01 22:21:01 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
I have a feeling that the CSM election is downplayed this year. No pre-election. No email notification. Things are like rushing through.
I can't tell you why they didn't send out a mass-email this year when they did last year. Sadly, dunno why.
However, the pre-election last year was a farce that stole away from the actual elections, and the likes-screening one year was even worse. If people want to run, let them run. They put their name and time on the line, and if they're such a bad candidate they can't get through a pre-election, they won't get elected either. You get your Xenuria-esque candidates every year, and my guess is they won't get in this year, as was with last year and the year before that. Why? Because people don't vote for them.

KIller Wabbit wrote:
We don't have any player representation - CCP's proved that time and again.
See, this is funny, because I am represented. CCP-proved(tm)!
I don't agree with the CSM'ers with whom I share playstyle about everything (Not that I would expect to do so), but they are aware of the issues I am facing and they will more likely than not promote ideas and point out flaws that in aggregate is to my benefit. There are two good reasons for this: First, because I voted, and secondly because I voted for a reasonable candidate.
If you didn't vote, your representation is a cointoss.

Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I follow the CSM closely, all the candidates and what they want and what they're improving. However, I recognised Rip as a CSM, the rest I have no clue, nor do I care really who they are, they haven't made much of an "Impact" on the community, I have been around for years and still don't know these people!

However, there are people that are constantly active, wanting to help people and doing their best, and yet these scrublord retards get the CSM panel instead, its a ******* pathetic.

tl;dr, give the CSM to people who actually care, not people who pretend, or are your friends.

All I got from this was that you had not looked into it.
And you didn't run because you didn't care.
And you are pissed off that they did.
And that people voted for them.

Next time, how about looking into it first?
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#26 - 2014-05-01 22:24:42 UTC
Not at all!

Actually, A lot of the CSM candidates will prove that they have had a decent amount of interaction with me, and previous CSM candidates such as Aleks have spoken to me about CSM "things". However, I am just not interested enough to be involved with it. This is a game to me and i want it to stay that way, joining the Air Force is much more important to me than CSM, plus, who'd vote for a scamming, pirating little shitlord like me?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#27 - 2014-05-01 22:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
I didn't watch it yet but I can guess it's because most of the player base does not know the CSM exists despite their vital role in CCP development and accountability.


Please explain the 'accountability' part that you mentioned and what active role the CSM plays in that exactly?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#28 - 2014-05-01 22:53:45 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
I didn't watch it yet but I can guess it's because most of the player base does not know the CSM exists despite their vital role in CCP development and accountability.


Please explain the 'accountability' part that you mentioned and what active role the CSM plays in that exactly?


They get the account ability which is the ability to have a free account...duh Twisted

Joking aside I think that the CSM does a rather nice job. I was particularly impressed with Ali Aras.

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#29 - 2014-05-01 23:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Null-sec may get the headlines but high-sec is the engine that drives EVE. Yet there is little if any high-sec representation on the CSM, and this is why the majority of players don't vote and perceive the CSM as nothing more than a token alliance syndicate.

Drone 16 wrote:
I was particularly impressed with Ali Aras.

Actually Ali was the only one I was impressed with. If you followed the Q&A session she was the only one that seemed to be genuinely interested in discussing some of the questions raised. The white papers were a great example when it was suggested to offer a "dumbed down" version. The response? Well, Jester did a blog writeup and many players actually prefer sifting through dozens of pages of materials. Even CCP Dolan can't seem to get behind the white papers so who are we kidding?!

The vast majority seemed more interested in stroking their egos about their tireless efforts and what a thankless job it is. Yes, I'm sure this is exactly what most players who PAID for their trip to Iceland were hoping to discuss or hear with this session. Most of us do get that it's volunteer - and that with the timezone and coordination it probably entails a lot of effort. On the other hand, the CSM members weren't f**king drafted, either.

It's too bad (or at least I didn't see) the real response as to why many players didn't vote: the CSM simply doesn't represent them.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
E Thatcher
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-05-01 23:48:16 UTC
this yes men thread brought to you by null sov and friendly alts
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#31 - 2014-05-01 23:53:00 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:

But who's to blame for that? The vast majority of players who either does not know or care? CCP that does not give the CSM enough exposure? The CSM that doesn't communicate what they're doing to the players they're supposed to represent?

Can we fix it?


The first one, and nope. Self imposed ignorance isn't curable over the internet.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2014-05-02 00:48:18 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
It's weird till you remember that if you follow the CSM and understand what it does you are a vast minority of the EVE Community.

Funny how the CSM is supposed to represent all the players and not just a "vast minority". I'd call that a failure.

But who's to blame for that? The vast majority of players who either does not know or care? CCP that does not give the CSM enough exposure? The CSM that doesn't communicate what they're doing to the players they're supposed to represent?

Can we fix it?

i call that "an elegant solution to the uninformed idiot problem"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#33 - 2014-05-02 01:10:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

The first one, and nope. Self imposed ignorance isn't curable over the internet.

Having attempted to engage the CSM on issues, I actually have to say the last one as well.
The CSM do not appear an approachable group of people in general unless you already have a specific in road to their desk via corp or player history.
To me this means that they are not likely to be doing a good job of representing the player base.

This is of course different from representing play styles, which aren't reliant on any individual view, though lack of engagement with players they don't already know is likely to impact on this negatively.

Fixing it requires people to interact, both CSM & Others though. Not voting says you accept whoever is on the CSM. It doesn't mean you aren't entitled to expect them to still listen, give feedback to you, and even act to pass on feedback from you to CCP to ensure it gets heard if it's relevant.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-05-02 01:25:17 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

The first one, and nope. Self imposed ignorance isn't curable over the internet.

Having attempted to engage the CSM on issues, I actually have to say the last one as well.
The CSM do not appear an approachable group of people in general unless you already have a specific in road to their desk via corp or player history.
To me this means that they are not likely to be doing a good job of representing the player base.

This is of course different from representing play styles, which aren't reliant on any individual view, though lack of engagement with players they don't already know is likely to impact on this negatively.

Fixing it requires people to interact, both CSM & Others though. Not voting says you accept whoever is on the CSM. It doesn't mean you aren't entitled to expect them to still listen, give feedback to you, and even act to pass on feedback from you to CCP to ensure it gets heard if it's relevant.


The CSM in of itself is tremendous work, of course they're not going to respond to every evemail you send them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#35 - 2014-05-02 01:26:31 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The CSM in of itself is tremendous work, of course they're not going to respond to every evemail you send them.

Or even questions asked at FanFest!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
E Thatcher
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-05-02 01:42:36 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
It's weird till you remember that if you follow the CSM and understand what it does you are a vast minority of the EVE Community.

Funny how the CSM is supposed to represent all the players and not just a "vast minority". I'd call that a failure.

But who's to blame for that? The vast majority of players who either does not know or care? CCP that does not give the CSM enough exposure? The CSM that doesn't communicate what they're doing to the players they're supposed to represent?

Can we fix it?

i call that "an elegant solution to the uninformed idiot problem"


And therin lies part of the problem, the idiot minion attitude. Do you really think our iqs are under 25?
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#37 - 2014-05-02 02:07:40 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
Because, CSM is important man.


well said LolBig smile

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#38 - 2014-05-02 05:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Having just rewatched the CSM panel discussion, I don't see any problem with the way things were discussed.

There was one question about the boundaries of CSM involvement in the game and their relation to the use of third-party software which someone on the CSM responded to with a "ask it directly" comment, that anyone who devotes time to the forum would understand related to the E1 issue. In the end I'm not even sure the person who asked the question was actually alluding to that (though on probability, I think they were).

However, while the CSM discussed extensively the need to communicate better with the general player base, one major issue that arose during CSM 9 was not even touched on; which was CSM credibility in relation to how CCP interacts with them.

Just this last summer, the whole issue of equity in the player base arose through perceived favouritism towards 1 particular player group, for good intentions, but completely misguided as far as the majority of the player base was concerned. While SomerBlink did nothing wrong in that, CCP actions demonstrated that while they talk about the importance of the CSM, on a daily basis the whole existence of the CSM has little bearing on the behaviour of CCP.

While devs aren't employed by the CSM, so the involvement should be more consultative rather than permissive, the CSM was established in response to a very similar issue of player equity in the game.

No-one during the CSM panel addressed how CSM-CCP relationships have been addressed within CSM 9 as a result of the SomerBlink situation.

I hope someone at least asks about that during the round-table on Saturday.

Until then, the credibility of the CSM in my eyes will always be in question (irrespective of the behaviour of individual CSM members towards other members of the community), because CCPs words about the importance of the CSM are not followed by equivalent actions, at least not publicly in all situations.
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#39 - 2014-05-02 05:53:31 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Folk like to moan about the CSM, but if CCP did away with the CSM, I would suggest that there would be a lot of folk complaining that we no longer had any player representation.

Don't like 'em or think they are useless?

Don't vote.


Never have and never will.

Doesn't mean we can't make fun of them for having delusions of grandeur.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#40 - 2014-05-02 05:58:34 UTC
Whole day was slow and csm hour did not stand out.

it is good they are consulted about things but they represent groups not player base and that input good or bad is lacking.

didn't have much of an opinion about them that remained the same.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard