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FInally, someone in this thread who is willing to actually consider the changes for what they're worth, instead of kneejerking a steaming pile of vitriol onto the forums once they detect even the slightest chance of risk or change to their status quo.

I'd like to be happy for this feature but when this feature was 1st mentioned I thought. Wow CCP is finally going to put some work into Corp/Alliance roles/perms letting indy corps cooperate safely without risk everyone losing their blue prints, material and the like. Even as it became clear it was not that I held out hope. Instead is this release we see CCP pushing us into using POSes which are as former WH dweller the most insecure way to do anything.

Seriously just let us launch POSes for self in addition to corp, because no one in their right mind shares a mfg or research POS with anyone other than their alts. What EVE Industry needs is a robust security framework for an Industrial player to want to be in a corp.

Sure Teams are interesting but these are not the teams Eve needs.

The POS time bonus is essentially increasing the velocity of your production, more production turns. If you have your logistics correctly lined up the POS can still make a big difference depending upon the ISK value of your products.

Then it sounds like you should talk to your corp about roles, not bugging CCP for meaningless and time consuming features that add nothing.

You specifically quoted a 5% figure, which has only been mentioned in CCP Ytterbium's post.



BACKPEDAL HARDER

Didn't mean to imply that titans would be able to take advantage of all these benefits. Just noticing how much they add up. It doesn't really matter anyhow (unless you're deciding where the prices of these goods are going), since the new refine numbers are just a new baseline.

I suspect folks do have titan BPOs either at ME5 or on their way there before the patch though, for the ME 9 benefit (before the cost for that goes through the roof).

That's what I thought too. Now I'm back to trying to figure out how to do manufacturing jobs as a corp project/ops.

This "auction" or bidding system needs to be "blind" or "silent" to create some semblance of fairness in that nobody, large alliance or solo player, knows exactly which Teams are being bid on or have the leading bid.

Basic stuff, CCP. Change without fairness is worse than the system we have.

CCP is never going to be able to please everybody and meaningful reform usually means winners and losers. Reform is overdue and you'll have to live with the new, ignore it or rage quit. Choice is always yours. Luckily with high margin items I don't need teams to be profitable on my small turnover.

My preference would be an open auction that has increasing bid increments, a fixed end time/date with a CCP supplied Gixen style sniping service. I'm guessing a large percentage of players have been exposed to a variant of that style of auction mechanic.

Personally, I would prefer to see teams of players combining their efforts to deliver ME/TE improvements. Something like the Fleet mechanics where you have a hierarchy of boosts and everybody has to be in the 'industrial' fleet to launch jobs that receive the industrial fleet bonuses. May need some more Leadership skills to implement industrial fleet bonuses. Has the advantage that Fleets are currently used for mining, PvE and PvP so adding a manufacturing industry fleet variant is not that radical.

Could extend this fleet concept to cover the solar system bids for teams. There are one or more solar system fleets open to all players that act as the local manufacturing Guild for a Station, Planet, and/or Solar System. Have an option to join a reasonable number of manufacturing Guilds (maybe skill based/limited) with an optional members contribution fee that goes towards solar system bids. The NPC teams add their bonus to the fleet not to the solar system. The idea is not to replace player Corporations. Maybe it could be used to replace NPC Corps by having new players placed into a Solar System Guild in the Noob starter systems. Maybe open up the WarDEC mechanic between Guilds within a Solar system. Few different ways to take the concept.

Guess the Fleet limitation should still be the Fleet Command V requirement. Should be interesting times if manufacturing Guilds are limited to 255 players and they need to co-operate with the other manufacturing Guilds in a heavily populated solar system. Wormhole space may default to the dominant Corp in a wormhole.

My only real concern with all this is that the only bonus that ~really~ matters is ME. This isn't because PE doesn't matter, rather as is the case with T1 in particular, an individual is able to make too much impact on the weekly volume of any particular ship.

I suggest vastly increasing T1 build times. I shouldn't be able to kick out 1/3 of the tempests sold in Jita a week with a single slot and single BPO without some hefty boosts. This is why T1 margins are crap, its ludicrously easy to saturate.

Cut build times across the board, and give us them back with teams, outpost/pos upgrades ETC. Lets have some industrial lebensraum to allow more players to contribute to the current weekly volume.