These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Risk vs. Reward

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
General Nusense
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-05-02 00:20:53 UTC
Everyone that plays, well most, realize that with a greater risk you should have greater rewards. With the upcoming summer expansion just around the corner and the big shift of industry to nullsec its time to up the risk in nullsec to make the rewards worth it.

1) Remove Local in Nullsec. Yup, you are getting the rewards, time to deal with the risk.
2) Implement Sleeper AI in to all plex, hubs, belts, gates. You should have to work to make isk, not afk in a carrier or ishtar.

With these two changes the risk in nullsec will equal the rewards that it brings.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2 - 2014-05-02 00:26:49 UTC
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3 - 2014-05-02 00:28:52 UTC
Whatever people think, not one carebear will leave high sec for a bit better return. CCP can push all they like, but it just ain't gonna happen.

On top of that, the morons that inhabit null won't do industry. That's not why they are there. CCP can buff null industry up the wazoo and not one guy will stop PVP to use it.

This whole expansion may end up being a colossal waste.

Mr Epeen Cool
motie one
Secret Passage
#4 - 2014-05-02 00:39:01 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Whatever people think, not one carebear will leave high sec for a bit better return. CCP can push all they like, but it just ain't gonna happen.

On top of that, the morons that inhabit null won't do industry. That's not why they are there. CCP can buff null industry up the wazoo and not one guy will stop PVP to use it.

This whole expansion may end up being a colossal waste.

Mr Epeen Cool



Human history is littered with the results of failed attempts to enforce changes in human nature and misguided attempts at behavioural modification.
Why should we expect them not to keep trying in the future, and continue pissing people off for another few thousand years.
General Nusense
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-05-02 00:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: General Nusense
Mr Epeen wrote:
Whatever people think, not one carebear will leave high sec for a bit better return. CCP can push all they like, but it just ain't gonna happen.

On top of that, the morons that inhabit null won't do industry. That's not why they are there. CCP can buff null industry up the wazoo and not one guy will stop PVP to use it.

This whole expansion may end up being a colossal waste.

Mr Epeen Cool


Hey they want all the rewards, time for them to have most of the risk.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#6 - 2014-05-02 00:52:50 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


On top of that, the morons that inhabit null won't do industry. That's not why they are there. CCP can buff null industry up the wazoo and not one guy will stop PVP to use it.

Mr Epeen Cool


Why would they when it is safer and more cost effective just to build in empire and ship it out?

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2014-05-02 01:18:25 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Why would they when it is safer and more cost effective just to build in empire and ship it out?

Because this expansion is giving them a 20% (At least, more on T2 depending on CCP implementation that they haven't clarified yet) cost advantage so it's actually more cost effective to build in null & ship to high and price war any (actual rather than null alt) high sec industrialist into bankruptcy.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-05-02 01:28:27 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
Everyone that plays, well most, realize that with a greater risk you should have greater rewards. With the upcoming summer expansion just around the corner and the big shift of industry to nullsec its time to up the risk in nullsec to make the rewards worth it.

1) Remove Local in Nullsec. Yup, you are getting the rewards, time to deal with the risk.
2) Implement Sleeper AI in to all plex, hubs, belts, gates. You should have to work to make isk, not afk in a carrier or ishtar.

With these two changes the risk in nullsec will equal the rewards that it brings.


Agree with your second point, but disagree with the first. Why don't you go ahead and deal with the risk of showing up in Local? That way blowing people up doesn't come with a free present of being invisible too.

Or invest in a covops and/or scouts and alts.

Asking for Local in null to act like it does in WH is just plain lazy.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#9 - 2014-05-02 01:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
General Nusense wrote:
Everyone that plays, well most, realize that with a greater risk you should have greater rewards. With the upcoming summer expansion just around the corner and the big shift of industry to nullsec its time to up the risk in nullsec to make the rewards worth it.

1) Remove Local in Nullsec. Yup, you are getting the rewards, time to deal with the risk.
2) Implement Sleeper AI in to all plex, hubs, belts, gates. You should have to work to make isk, not afk in a carrier or ishtar.

With these two changes the risk in nullsec will equal the rewards that it brings.



You're funny. Every now and then we get crap like what you wrote about no local or sleeper ai in null not mentioning about isk/h which would have to be buffed. And then you say that to compensate for that null will be just slightly better because"industry". Why should null have lower income from ratting than doing incursion in almost perfect safety in hisec?

Where's my unlike button ccp
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#10 - 2014-05-02 01:55:15 UTC
Can you explain why an alliance should not benefit from keeping their space cleared and well policed?

That's what you are asking for, the removal of any benefit to putting out the effort of trying to hold space.

If that is the sort of gameplay you enjoy, wormholes are not that hard to scan down and the locals there will be happy to show you around.

Sorry, no. Your proposal just seeks to give you free easy ganks of defenseless industrial targets without the risk of being hunted down by their defense forces before you can get to them. Their ships can't fight, so they rely on evasion. Take away evasion and they simply won't be used in those areas.
Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-05-02 05:03:22 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
Everyone that plays, well most, realize that with a greater risk you should have greater rewards. With the upcoming summer expansion just around the corner and the big shift of industry to nullsec its time to up the risk in nullsec to make the rewards worth it.

1) Remove Local in Nullsec. Yup, you are getting the rewards, time to deal with the risk.
2) Implement Sleeper AI in to all plex, hubs, belts, gates. You should have to work to make isk, not afk in a carrier or ishtar.

With these two changes the risk in nullsec will equal the rewards that it brings.




Oh another. "Make nullsec into wormhole space" thread.

YAWN!!!!!!!!!

Go try living in nullsec doing mining. All the ones in my corp are already on the edge of their seats since the interceptor buff and having the ORE belts no longer require scanning probes.

Your suggestion doesn't increase risk. It turns nullsec PVE into suicide.

And if you know of an area of space where people actually AFK while carrier ratting please let me know so I can helicopter d*** my Nyx on top of them.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-05-02 06:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Why would they when it is safer and more cost effective just to build in empire and ship it out?

Because this expansion is giving them a 20% (At least, more on T2 depending on CCP implementation that they haven't clarified yet) cost advantage so it's actually more cost effective to build in null & ship to high and price war any (actual rather than null alt) high sec industrialist into bankruptcy.



Still have logistics bottlenecks. IE..its a pita to ship assembled ships. Unless one of the new mystery ships is a dedicated ship transport for empire, the pita of wrapping assembled ship couriers into another ship courier contract (as 0.0 know to not take in alliance chars to jita...unless suicidal anyway) will have it so the old way will be better just from an administrative headache layer.


Also worht noting for years the preferred compacting of ores for building has been making t1 items. The loss of refine tax in empire < the pita of rorq compression, hauling one big rock, and decompressing other end. In short....0.0 learned sometimes you have to take losses to make a profit. Rhea with a load 425 I rails > rorq compression basically.

Also there will supply and demand of build slots. Stations/outposts fill up quick. And unless they want a pos slave revolution I don't see them throwing up 10's of pos' for building. If pos slaves already overworked....I'd see them going f this sh....t, take me off pos rotation I am done.

Also don't see the bitter vets on either side running in droves to back pos build up. They like me remember the pos based SOV warfare of old. Days upon days of pos save/bash ops. It sucked. While current SOV is not perfect (or even close) it is I will admit better than pos warfare. I know I don't want more pos' to shoot to win the war at any rate.
bartos100
Living Ghost
#13 - 2014-05-02 06:37:11 UTC
for those thinking a lot of industry is going to 0.0 don't for get the following

-nerf to compression due to refining changes will force more trips from high sec to keep mass production going

-50% increase in jumpfuelcosts to all jump drives and bridges, increasing the cost even more first due to more fuel need and due to increased fuel prizes due to increased demand

so yes they might get more efficient production but the cost of logistics will cut hard in their possible profits
Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2014-05-02 06:42:57 UTC
what makes the OP think there is a disproportionate risk to reward in 0.0 anyway?

Unless you're a moron there is 0.0% risk in running missions. No matter how much more ISK you make in 0.0, it will never compete with having absolutely no risk.

If you're looking to balance risk vs reward 0.0 is not the place to start.
Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-05-02 06:58:12 UTC
Sigras wrote:
what makes the OP think there is a disproportionate risk to reward in 0.0 anyway?

Unless you're a moron there is 0.0% risk in running missions. No matter how much more ISK you make in 0.0, it will never compete with having absolutely no risk.

If you're looking to balance risk vs reward 0.0 is not the place to start.



^^ what he said.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-03 08:42:09 UTC
That's the typical WH whine: "I can only kill targets that don't know I'm in their system, mama CCP help me and disable local so I can get kills!"