Player Features and Ideas Discussion

"so we intend to decide upon player reactions to a rule set that hasn't even been explained in full yet let alone player tested or explored, in order to push forward a solution that doesn't actually address the original cause of the situation we're trying to compensate for with the undertone of trying to mess with power projection that isn't even half the monstrous problem that everyone is crying that it is."

now don't get me wrong here, predicting behaviour ahead of time is a very useful skill, last time i used it against you personally i predicted every move in sequence you'd command your actor fleet to use against what was left of mine, so i do know it's a very good skill to be able to use.

but what you're trying to do here and now goes beyond irresponsibility into the realms of outright stupidity.

this summer expansion you are doing something your organisation hasn't bothered to do in a very long time, and that is to change the rules of the eve universe - we all hope in a way that'll make the game more interesting to play - but unlike what you're doing here we're still reserving judgement until we've actually seen how this'll work.

and that is exactly what I am going to advise you to do now: nothing.

the cause of this ice problem was most likely your alterations to harvester time and spawn mechanics of ice fields, thus your first priority order should be to simply scale those back so gathering ice isn't as quick and simple as breathing - that'll reduce supply and bring prices back to a more reasonable spot - something you say is your plan. and actually removes the source of the problem you say there is now.

wait 6 months after the first real (summer) expansion you're going to have released in about 2.5 years, see what the players actually use your new rules to do THEN decide if you need to start messing with child systems in order to compensate for the problems your earlier changes to the parent system've caused.

your people are far too intelligent to make such simple development mistakes so frequently. please, do your job and do it responsibly we could all use some breathable air. (i will not ask for fresh air from you yet that'd be too much)
if your aim is to fix the problem being caused by something then address the mechanics that actually cause the error don't go messing with additional systems while ignoring the original cause it'll just compound the problem.

(that said, by all means continue trying to cure the disease by burying symptoms if you value the height of your workload over the quality and stability of your mechanics)

Hell, I pay 16m rewards on couriers in highsec. It just isn't enough isk to cut significantly into any profit margin that is actually worth a shit.

Fozzie, I think this change is a bit premature.

In other words you have no data on how much or how little POS use will be affected by the proposed indy changes thus far. This is especially true since it seems like you guys are trying to nail down just what to do in order to still make it worthwhile to have multiple arrays/labs at once. So if you come up with a solution to that you've just radically increased costs for everyone...

In that vien I have an interesting idea for pos that fits in with the infinite jobs idea and still keeps them needed in bulk:


Parallelism.

In other words the "killer feature" of POS would be to allow you to break up research jobs/prodcution jobs in parallel to complete them faster.

You have two labs, you can break the research up on an infinite number of BPOS (limited by player skills) to complete twice as fast and so and so forth.

I did some rough estimates, and it looks like with a dread gur tower and assuming labs cpu cost of 500 cpu would allow you to have 15 labs at once if that's all you put on it. So to balance this you could either hugely increase the cpu cost so that it wouldn't be wise to go over 3-4 labs, or limit the amount of jobs that you could run in parallel. (I'd say balance it on the average number of labs people run now). I'd also mess with the current numbers that labs give bonuses to so that they are closer to NPC stations. In this way, POS don't compete with NPC/Null stations in the same way, or don't give them any bonuses at all since this one is so powerful. (I haven't looked at production arrays, but the same principles apply here)

CCP Fozzie; You really have lost contact with eve as a game haven't you?

Prices of Isotopes have increased by a little over 1/3rd since this was announced. So the cost of running a max skill Rhea just went from 50 mil to just under 100 mil.

The last time Devs played with market manipulation with mining changes, prices for isotopes went for around 400 to 1000 and settled at around 500 to 700. This new bash at market manipulation should post patch see prices settle at between 850 to the current 1000. Adding approximately 1/3rd to projected price increases.

The amount of jump fuel consumed vs the amount used for pos fuel - The way I use my capitals currently, around 25,000 pos's would have to be removed to justify your proposal. That is just based on my usage, so multiply that by the amount of capitals in use, your expecting at a rough guess over 2 million Pos's to be removed from the game due to industry changes.

Funny, just wayyyy too funny.



These changes just so clearly smack of;
CCP needs to sell more plex so we need to manipulate the "player driven" market and force prices up to the ridiculous, so people need to buy plex just to be able to fly and buy ships they have trained years for.
OR
(My personal thoughts); The Devs doing this really have no idea ( or have lost sight of) how eve works and are simply making it up as they go.

My suggestion, give lead Devs 1 months pay to do nothing but play eve. Spend the 1st week as a rookie toon, just starting out. Then spend the next 3 weeks playing a toon with skills representative of the average player.
Play both to your own play style but no using dev contacts to advance yourself.. IE; no joining a nulsec blob by telling recruiters who you are.

I think most of the Devs who did this would find, the game they are trying to balance and improve is very different from what they perceive it to be.
Statistics and metrics don't show anything close to what it is like living day to day as an eve player.


1st we'll lower skill requirements to get people to train into capitals, then (so devs can get a free laugh) make them unusable for all but the richest by more than doubling the cost to run them. (nul blobs will see little change in use as they can afford the increased costs - to protect current holdings and take new space)

Well this is another stupid decision in a long string of stupid decisions that again benefit high SP players and large corporations/alliances. I thought the advent of depleting ice fields was meant stimulate the ice economy and increase competition. hasn't changed a thing. The current mechanics involving jump ships has seen more players move to nullsec then I have seen in long time through alliance renting who would have normally not considered going nullsec, now you have just made it cost 150% more for people to move to nullsec and do business. Way to go

There is not one argument within this thread that has convinced me that this is a good thing for the game. In my view CCP your beginning to destroy a good game, soon it will be an average game it is just to hard for new players to get involved in the game without 2 years of investment and even then it is difficult to enjoy the game.

But everyone should realise by now that it doesn't matter what the community wants, CCP don't care and the changes will go ahead no matter what everyone says.

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
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A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

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Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

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Thread reopened.

The problem most of us have is not that the range will change. The problem is that the change will increase the cost of fuel to jump by 50% (1.5x current cost). The reason they give for this change is market speculation. There is no solid evidence that the market for isotopes will change at all after this expansion. If anything, at which point CCP should just come out and say it. is they want to make it harder for alliance to move around capital fleets. If that is the case, they are doing it wrong because they are hurting smaller entities the most by this idea.

Oh, I understand the worries just fine. I'm among one of those small groups that uses JF quite often. It's just nice to explain things in terms that most people can grasp versus showing lots of % signs and giving open-ended statements.

The fact that this hits JFs makes me frown, but I don't know just how it will turn out in the end, despite the appearance of bad news. There's a lot of changes coming after all :s

Well, let's not go crazy. The Universal Brotherhood of Frozen Liquid Local 632 is quite happy with this proposed change. Nothing like government handouts to get the union vote to rally up :ObamaIce:

well ccp you've failed again. Thank you and good night.

Because we do something to break something lets just jack **** up by 50%. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

How about decrease amount of isk made in high sec and low sec first. Then you wouldn't have such a huge surplus of isk. Seriously what's the point of allowing someone to make more isk in high and low sec than 00? The whole point to 00 was making the big bucks back when i first started playing eve.