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Amarr needs overhaul
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Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-12-02 14:56:55 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
y.

2. Some Amarr ships can fit a decent buffer. The issue is, the ships I speak of all have pathetic dps, which in turn limits their role in a fleet to bait ship. Wow, that's a fun role right there. The ships I speak of are the Prophecy and Maller. Ya, I bet those ships strike fear into your heart when they pop in on the field, eh? Most fleets will completely ignore them in a fight anyway, making their bait role pointless. Not to mention, Caldari does the tank better and Minmatar can fit damn near the same buffer if they sacrifice their speed. So no real benefit here.


Abaddon: Buffer of 138 with out fleet bonus, 149k with 826 dps with med drones and scorch. 45 km opt.

Geddon: with a Bufffer of 95k without fleet bonus 101k with and delivers 1058 DPS.

Poc: nice sniper fleet bs can muster a decent tank and dps. With megas, 99k ehp with 574 dps w / scorch at 62km opt.



The Hacs are strong in their own right solo or gang. Caldari Hacs....lulz. Gallante only has one, Ishtar and that is pretty much a solo boat or small gang.

Recons deliver good dps, nuets and very effective in gangs and especially solo. In which the Caldari version pretty much suck solo.

BC's : the Harbi s a decent boat.

Crusiers: Arbi is flat out a great boat for gang, Maller is tougher than ****.

Frigs: they are frigs, point mwd and your done, what more do you want on a frig any way.

So yeah i am not seeing what the issue is really.
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#22 - 2011-12-02 14:59:19 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Nerf Minmatar.
All races are now more-or-less balanced.
\o/

have to agree with you here
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#23 - 2011-12-02 15:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ottersmacker
As divine commodore of the empire, i can confirm that our starship designs are competitive when commanded by skilled capsuleers, especially ever since electromagnetic damage became more powerful against armour a few years ago. A few designs could use iteration, but overall there is nothing significantly wrong.

In fact I can see myself commanding an increased number of golden fleet designs in the light of the latest caldari-gallente innovations in hybrid technology.

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#24 - 2011-12-02 15:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellen Kurvora
Baaldor wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
y.

2. Some Amarr ships can fit a decent buffer. The issue is, the ships I speak of all have pathetic dps, which in turn limits their role in a fleet to bait ship. Wow, that's a fun role right there. The ships I speak of are the Prophecy and Maller. Ya, I bet those ships strike fear into your heart when they pop in on the field, eh? Most fleets will completely ignore them in a fight anyway, making their bait role pointless. Not to mention, Caldari does the tank better and Minmatar can fit damn near the same buffer if they sacrifice their speed. So no real benefit here.


Abaddon: Buffer of 138 with out fleet bonus, 149k with 826 dps with med drones and scorch. 45 km opt.

Geddon: with a Bufffer of 95k without fleet bonus 101k with and delivers 1058 DPS.

Poc: nice sniper fleet bs can muster a decent tank and dps. With megas, 99k ehp with 574 dps w / scorch at 62km opt.



The Hacs are strong in their own right solo or gang. Caldari Hacs....lulz. Gallante only has one, Ishtar and that is pretty much a solo boat or small gang.

Recons deliver good dps, nuets and very effective in gangs and especially solo. In which the Caldari version pretty much suck solo.

BC's : the Harbi s a decent boat.

Crusiers: Arbi is flat out a great boat for gang, Maller is tougher than ****.

Frigs: they are frigs, point mwd and your done, what more do you want on a frig any way.

So yeah i am not seeing what the issue is really.




Harbi is not a decent boat in comparison to the other top tiers which all out perform it, the maller may be tougher than **** but its not gonna kill a damn thing and nobody will ever bother shooting at it, arbi is the only viable cruiser, all the frigs suck cept the navy slicer, HACs is the only thing you mentioned without an issue.

Oh the abbadon is badass too.
Brothar Rey
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#25 - 2011-12-02 15:02:52 UTC
No. Blasphemy!
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#26 - 2011-12-02 15:03:20 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
The punisher struggles from the same issue the maller and prophecy does. The Abbadon is in its own class because its bonuses are completey different than all the other ships. the legion is known to be the worst t3 ship in the game. The geddon has only 3 mid slots, nuf said. And the rest you mention are t2. With the exception of the curse, the others can all be easily overshadowed by any other races t2 hulls


That argument can be made for almost any ship in this game and is an easy out, almost everything has a counter and and ideal way to be flown. It is always easier to see the downside of a hull than to learn how to use it and master it's strengths.

I do agree the Legion needs love but any T3 ship is superior to a T2 hull just because of the sheer versatility subsystems allow you so being the worst of the four best cruisers in the game is still pretty damn good.

Punishers are excellent brawlers and if fit correctly and flown well can wear down any other T1 frigate in the game forcing them to run or face destruction, cap war is the key there. The Armageddon puts out almost the same dps as the Abaddon and while it has less (but still respectable) tank you can buy three well fit Armageddons for the price of one well fit Abaddon and they move better.


NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Generals4
#27 - 2011-12-02 15:07:29 UTC
Vircomore Amilupar wrote:
I'm not a PvPer, but I can realistically agree with the EM/Therm problem. None of the other races are put at such an unbelievable disadvantage against Angels and Guristas than the laser-toting Amarr.

At this point, since I am not effectively cross-trained into another race -- it is easier for me to just blatantly dismiss any Angel or Guristas missions I am given.


Hybrid weaponry has the same issue against npc factions with high kinetic resists. It's not like only lasers have that issue.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#28 - 2011-12-02 15:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellen Kurvora
Generals4 wrote:
Vircomore Amilupar wrote:
I'm not a PvPer, but I can realistically agree with the EM/Therm problem. None of the other races are put at such an unbelievable disadvantage against Angels and Guristas than the laser-toting Amarr.

At this point, since I am not effectively cross-trained into another race -- it is easier for me to just blatantly dismiss any Angel or Guristas missions I am given.


Hybrid weaponry has the same issue against npc factions with high kinetic resists. It's not like only lasers have that issue.

I would rather have kinetic therm then em therm. Kinetic therm is more effective against a broader range of ship types. Not to mention the sheer damage of blasters fully make up for it
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#29 - 2011-12-02 15:12:47 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
the sheer damage modifier of blasters fully make up for it

lol.
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#30 - 2011-12-02 15:14:23 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
the sheer damage modifier of blasters fully make up for it

lol.

Whats funny? Blasters are the most powerful turret when it comes to damage in the game. Did you not know that?
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#31 - 2011-12-02 15:17:27 UTC
And I forgot to add tht a single neut means game over for an Amarrian ship without a booster. And being that Amarr ships are already mid slot starved......
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#32 - 2011-12-02 15:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahz Niverrah
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
a Harbinger can just scorch it to death from 30 or 40km away

Dewgong wrote:
1600mm plate Harb that still tops 900 DPS


Wait... what?

Don't get me wrong, I love the harbi. It's a fine ship for it's price point... but seriously? 1600mm plateded harbi that does 900 dps? 30-40km range?

C'mon. Let's be real. 1600mm fits need to use focused medium pulses, so you're closer to 650 dps. And that's with an optimal of 6k. Using scorch drops that damage dramatically, and only pushes the optimal out to 21k or so.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying the harbinger is underpowered by any stretch of the imagination, but let's at least try to be real here.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#33 - 2011-12-02 15:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shpenat
Hellen Kurvora wrote:


I would rather have kinetic therm then em therm. Kinetic therm is more effective against a broader range of tank types. Not to mention the sheer damage modifier of blasters fully make up for it



Before this patch everybody would laugh at you. After this patch I would say "maybe". Time will tell.

I have a feeling you are still trying to put Amarr into role they are not suppose to do well.

Granted that Amarr have no option in missions where Gallente can deploy drones, Caldari use missiles and Minmatar can just use correct ammo. Luckily your racial enemies are weak against Em/Therm.

In PvP you are still trying to compare Amarr ships 1vs1 where mobility is important. Don't do it. Amarr can be easilly outperformed in this. Hence most T1 Amarr frigs and battlecruisers are overshadowed by other races. They are mostly small engagement ships.
Dewgong
Order of the Black Dagger
#34 - 2011-12-02 15:20:52 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
y.

2. Some Amarr ships can fit a decent buffer. The issue is, the ships I speak of all have pathetic dps, which in turn limits their role in a fleet to bait ship. Wow, that's a fun role right there. The ships I speak of are the Prophecy and Maller. Ya, I bet those ships strike fear into your heart when they pop in on the field, eh? Most fleets will completely ignore them in a fight anyway, making their bait role pointless. Not to mention, Caldari does the tank better and Minmatar can fit damn near the same buffer if they sacrifice their speed. So no real benefit here.


Abaddon: Buffer of 138 with out fleet bonus, 149k with 826 dps with med drones and scorch. 45 km opt.

Geddon: with a Bufffer of 95k without fleet bonus 101k with and delivers 1058 DPS.

Poc: nice sniper fleet bs can muster a decent tank and dps. With megas, 99k ehp with 574 dps w / scorch at 62km opt.



The Hacs are strong in their own right solo or gang. Caldari Hacs....lulz. Gallante only has one, Ishtar and that is pretty much a solo boat or small gang.

Recons deliver good dps, nuets and very effective in gangs and especially solo. In which the Caldari version pretty much suck solo.

BC's : the Harbi s a decent boat.

Crusiers: Arbi is flat out a great boat for gang, Maller is tougher than ****.

Frigs: they are frigs, point mwd and your done, what more do you want on a frig any way.

So yeah i am not seeing what the issue is really.




Harbi is not a decent boat in comparison to the other top tiers which all out perform it, the maller may be tougher than **** but its not gonna kill a damn thing and nobody will ever bother shooting at it, arbi is the only viable cruiser, all the frigs suck cept the navy slicer, HACs is the only thing you mentioned without an issue.

Oh the abbadon is badass too.

The Punisher is on par with the Rifter and Merlin, if not better since it can just about best it's tier for tier counterparts mano y mano

Omen can push out 600 DPS. That's alot for a cruiser.

The Harbinger provides the most DPS outside of Gallente Blaster boats and is still able to hit out far enough to pop anything that has to be close enough to tackle it. it's not blazingly fast, but it has enough EHP and DPS to arguably outperform a Hurricane. Also, a Drake, if close enough will melt, and if it's not close enough (aka Heavy Missiles and god knows how long of a range) you can just warp out and laugh at the drake.


It sounds like most of your argument is based around PVE, which is laughable. Also, get a Paladin, you wont need another ship to do missions again.

Also, blasters may do the most damage, but good luck getting close enough to do anything. By the time you're close enough you generally half dead anyways, not to mention the cap argument, while valid, is balanced out against Amarr due to the fact that our caps are huge compared to tier for tier equivalents as well as the fact that some Amarrian ships get bonus to cap recharge.
Lil Nippy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-12-02 15:21:28 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
the sheer damage modifier of blasters fully make up for it

lol.

Whats funny? Blasters are the most powerful turret when it comes to damage in the game. Did you not know that?


Lol. First thing, just stop. You obviously are not a very seasoned PvP pilot so please reconsider embarassing yourself further in this debate.

Second, go back to shooting your rock.
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#36 - 2011-12-02 15:27:50 UTC
Lil Nippy wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
the sheer damage modifier of blasters fully make up for it

lol.

Whats funny? Blasters are the most powerful turret when it comes to damage in the game. Did you not know that?


Lol. First thing, just stop. You obviously are not a very seasoned PvP pilot so please reconsider embarassing yourself further in this debate.

Second, go back to shooting your rock.

Please feel free to enlighten me oh great one on where what I said was inaccurate
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-12-02 15:35:06 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Lil Nippy wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
the sheer damage modifier of blasters fully make up for it

lol.

Whats funny? Blasters are the most powerful turret when it comes to damage in the game. Did you not know that?


Lol. First thing, just stop. You obviously are not a very seasoned PvP pilot so please reconsider embarassing yourself further in this debate.

Second, go back to shooting your rock.

Please feel free to enlighten me oh great one on where what I said was inaccurate

Lol

I could say why you are wrong, but instead I'll say "use search function".


if the only thing that made a weapon was the damage modifier, then blasters would be the best weapon in game.

but alas, it's not.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#38 - 2011-12-02 15:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellen Kurvora
[/quote]
I could say why you are wrong, but instead I'll say "use search function".


if the only thing that made a weapon was the damage modifier, then blasters would be the best weapon in game.

but alas, it's not.[/quote]

I was referring to damage not range or speed of the ship in question. Both of those were fixed by the way and damage was increased
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-12-02 15:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
I was referring to damage not range or speed of the ship in question. Both of those were fixed by the way and damage was increased



hmm... no they weren't. the fix CCP made was akin to use a bandaid to patch a gunshot wound.

a nasty, nasty 12-gauge explosive pellet gunshot wound.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#40 - 2011-12-02 15:54:07 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
I was referring to damage not range or speed of the ship in question. Both of those were fixed by the way and damage was increased



hmm... no they weren't. the fix CCP made was akin to use a bandaid to patch a gunshot wound.

a nasty, nasty 12-gauge explosive pellet gunshot wound.


A 25 percent damage increase 50 percent cap decrease 10 percent tracking increase and speed and inertial modifications is a bandaid?